Bad Spring For Grizz

[sheepguide]

Not to worried if the tree huggers getting eaten its the kids playing in the yards that these bears havent been for hundreds of years when populations were good and were hunted but are starting to venture in and near now that I am concerned about. Never was a big issue until the population was counted and considered low.
SG

[nube]

Well put Darcy. I agree 100%.  I also know of a few Ralph Klein bears.

I may know a few stories of the Ralph Klein bears as well.  Seems to be quite a few people that know about them.  Kind of surprises me but I think that area down there has a large amount of bears and they seem to be leaving the mountains down there quite a bit

[pitw]

  So would it not make better sense to work with hunters on this issue if they are going to be shot anyways?

  Darcy , how can you expect hunters to take care of a problem animal?  In farming country, hunters are more of a problem than animals.  I see all kinds of posts on forums of how [let us call them slickers] will look after the natural resources for their own purposes but they are never around when something is eating the livestock.  I'm more than willing to bet that all the problem bears are not the big boars that the "Trophy Hunter" wants for his/her bragging rights. 

[JIMMY 808]

Sheep guide I have looked a few times in the past but never had too much luck when was the last grizzly season in our zones 324 ,330?  Not sure the lack of hunting pressure has anything to do with the movement of bears.
 
 Nube I am not arguing with you but the legends of the Cardston Grizzly’s is growing up to 9 I see now I have been wrong many times in what I have thought but wow I call BS.

[deerman]

Sheepguide: Why are more bears being seen in these areas? Because populations further west are increasing and bears are being pushed into other areas to find a home territory.

I believe that is the whole point in keeping the season closed.  To allow the population to increase.  And it is. I reckon there will have to be a decision made as to how many grizz is enough and where do we want to have them?  At some point there will be some harvest opportunity.

[sheepguide]

  Darcy , how can you expect hunters to take care of a problem animal?  In farming country, hunters are more of a problem than animals.  I see all kinds of posts on forums of how [let us call them slickers] will look after the natural resources for their own purposes but they are never around when something is eating the livestock.  I'm more than willing to bet that all the problem bears are not the big boars that the "Trophy Hunter" wants for his/her bragging rights.

If you have increased hunting pressure on these fringe areas you will harvest some of these problem bears. Some will still become problems but the percentage will be lower. Second like ive stated if these bears are hunted you can deter some problem bears before they become an issue just due to the fact some of them will learn that people are dangerous again and will try and avoid them and that will again become a learned trait from generation to generation.
And as far as not being trophy bears well the one they hauled out of here the other day was a huge bear that any hunter would die to harvest!
Problem bears come in all sizes. And even if that large boar isnt a problem bear or taken out of a populated area it will open up a home range for another bear that that harvested bear would have just pushed out possibly into an area where it will become a problem.

On another note a second bear has been trapped here and hauled out this week.



Jimmy Im not sure about 330 but I beleive 324 was closed at the same time as the rest of the zones. And our highest populations are the mountain zones, bear populations are very high there now pushing bears through zones such as 318 326 324 etc. Now with populations in these 300 zones increasing we are starting to see more and more venturing to the farm land.

And yes deerman like I stated that  is the main reason that bears are moving to new areas but I wouldnt put much money on seeing a grizz season ever again in Alberta.

[nube]

Pitw, the 9 number came from Fish and Wildlife who was checking my buddy while he was gopher hunting in the area.  That one den where he was shooting gophers had 3 bears alone.  Call it BS if you want I could care less but it does not take much to get 9 bears in an area.  Last year there was another sow and 2 cubs that made a den under one of the farmers old barns.  That would then make 6 total.  Call fish and wildlife if you want.  The number came from them.  If their BSing I don't know why they would but it is what was said.  I'm just passing on the info.  To me it doesn't matter what the numbers are.  Grizz hunting in Alberta is done and it isn't coming back. 
Also I don't believe hunting them will do anything about having lower problem bears.  The old thinking of it will teach them to be aafraid of humans is not true in my mind.

[pitw]

Pitw, the 9 number came from Fish and Wildlife who was checking my buddy while he was gopher hunting in the area.  That one den where he was shooting gophers had 3 bears alone.  Call it BS if you want I could care less but it does not take much to get 9 bears in an area.  Last year there was another sow and 2 cubs that made a den under one of the farmers old barns.  That would then make 6 total.  Call fish and wildlife if you want.  The number came from them.  If their BSing I don't know why they would but it is what was said.   

You looking for a scrap or what?  Where and when did I say anything about your post? 


Darcy, if bears learn and pass on that being around humans is dangerous, how come I read reports of the same bears being trapped and deported?  I'm not sold on the idea of hunters educating bears yet .  Seems to me if the hunter does what he sets out to do, then the bear will not be passing on much to the others unless they sneak up to a window and see what they will become if they get caught close to a human.

[nube]

Sorry Pitw I thought it was you that called BS on the 9 number but I think it was Jimmy.  No I am not looking for a fight   It is easy enough to pick it with someone else on here if I want one.    I don't need that.  Just thought I would throw in my observations

[JIMMY 808]

Pitw, the 9 number came from Fish and Wildlife who was checking my buddy while he was gopher hunting in the area.  That one den where he was shooting gophers had 3 bears alone.  Call it BS if you want I could care less but it does not take much to get 9 bears in an area.  Last year there was another sow and 2 cubs that made a den under one of the farmers old barns.  That would then make 6 total.  Call fish and wildlife if you want.  The number came from them.  If their BSing I don't know why they would but it is what was said.  I'm just passing on the info.  To me it doesn't matter what the numbers are.  Grizz hunting in Alberta is done and it isn't coming back. 
Also I don't believe hunting them will do anything about having lower problem bears.  The old thinking of it will teach them to be aafraid of humans is not true in my mind.

  And that settles that just seamed like BS.

[sheepguide]

You looking for a scrap or what?  Where and when did I say anything about your post? 


Darcy, if bears learn and pass on that being around humans is dangerous, how come I read reports of the same bears being trapped and deported?  I'm not sold on the idea of hunters educating bears yet .  Seems to me if the hunter does what he sets out to do, then the bear will not be passing on much to the others unless they sneak up to a window and see what they will become if they get caught close to a human.

Yep your right bear lots of times do become habitual problems. But there is absolutely nothing to deter them from being that problem bear to start with. They are already the problem before they are delt with.
Sure hunting isn't going to cure all the problem bears but it can do nothing but help some. The thing your missing is I feel some hunters chasing grizzly will possibly give that fear prior to that bear getting to an area that will invite that bear to become problematic. Being proactive to me is better than reactive to problem bears. Hunting will also open up a home range for these bears to live outside of human contact there for they will not be forced to live in areas where the will become a nuisance.

[nube]

  And that settles that just seamed like BS.

I was surprised by the numbers as well when my buddy told me of his experience.  In the end who really knows what the numbers are but I know the ones around Cardston they keep pretty close tabs on and a couple even have collars on them to keep track of them. 

[pitw]

Hunting will also open up a home range for these bears

How so?

[sheepguide]

By taking out 1 mature bear through hunting you make room for another that would have been pushed out( more so with multiple tags). Bears are territorial so as the populations rise bears younger or less dominant bears are pushed farther and farther to find a home range of their own and breeding females of their own. Without any type of control measure the numbers that cohabitat with humans will do nothing but increase. There is no control measures for bears other than hunting so with no season the problem bears will just continue to rise each year.
SG

[JIMMY 808]

Would be interesting to have the numbers of tags given and sucsess rate of hunters from years back.

[Hunter Trav]

Yep your right bear lots of times do become habitual problems. But there is absolutely nothing to deter them from being that problem bear to start with. They are already the problem before they are delt with.
Sure hunting isn't going to cure all the problem bears but it can do nothing but help some. The thing your missing is I feel some hunters chasing grizzly will possibly give that fear prior to that bear getting to an area that will invite that bear to become problematic. Being proactive to me is better than reactive to problem bears.

I don't think there would be enough pressure on them for that to really take hold.  You'd probably teach a few bears no doubt, but the pressure wouldn't be enough that you would notice them being any more hunter shy than they are.  With the few tags they might be inclined to allow, it would take a number of years before I would say they regained a healthy fear of humans...

[sheepguide]

Well Trav they arent hunter shy at all here or in the areas I hunt now and at least a few were back when I started hunting. And if hunting can help cure a couple problem bears by harvest that may just be a couple that would be put down for being problems.
Seems unless it solves the total problem most dont feel its any good. Hunting will help no matter how little or how few bears it removes or keeps out of trouble. There is zero other options and  we will see how bad it gets with the zero control we have now.
SG

[Hunter Trav]

I don't doubt that they aren't shy of hunters as of late, and I'm certainly not against taking a few out of the equation, that is unless I don't get a tag for one...

But seriously, I was just meaning that it would take more than a few bears getting hunted to instill that fear in them again.  Quite frankly I think it does need to happen before it becomes a much bigger problem..

[nube]

Would be interesting to have the numbers of tags given and sucsess rate of hunters from years back.

I can help with that for the final year tags were given out Jimmy.  I was one of 73 or 78 tags given out and I was one of 6 bears killed.  What I found was that the areas the tags were given had no mountain zones.  Most Grizz had dens in mountain areas from the research I had done.  I shot mine May 2 I hunted 3 weeks.  Saw one other bear sighting that could have been the same bear as it was within a couple miles of where I shot mine.  I saw 0 other tracks of any other bear and I hiked 8-10 miles a day quaded a pile and drove my truck around every square inch of the zone.  I hunted between Rob and Hinton and there sure should have been a lot more sign but like I said I think most of them were in the mountain areas barely getting out of their dens.  Season ended I think May15th so it didn't give you the best of time to hunt in the year. 

[JIMMY 808]

I can help with that for the final year tags were given out Jimmy.  I was one of 73 or 78 tags given out and I was one of 6 bears killed.  What I found was that the areas the tags were given had no mountain zones.  Most Grizz had dens in mountain areas from the research I had done.  I shot mine May 2 I hunted 3 weeks.  Saw one other bear sighting that could have been the same bear as it was within a couple miles of where I shot mine.  I saw 0 other tracks of any other bear and I hiked 8-10 miles a day quaded a pile and drove my truck around every square inch of the zone.  I hunted between Rob and Hinton and there sure should have been a lot more sign but like I said I think most of them were in the mountain areas barely getting out of their dens.  Season ended I think May15th so it didn't give you the best of time to hunt in the year.

 

  Thanks

  See I would have thought more around 8 tags or so all in moutian zones.