Bass Pro still keeping ledger on non restricted firearms

[Paul]

Was down and Bass Pro and asked the guys at gun counter if they are keeping a ledger, which they said they were. So I challenged them on it. I asked why. The guy sais "it shows we are doing due diligence on firearms", so I felt pretty annoyed with that so I asked them isn't me showing my PAL your due diligence. No proper reply really so I asked them who told them to do that was it the store or was it required by the Government, then the stuttering started and I asked again who told them to do it and why are they doing it, and the arsehole says "well no one told us to stop doing it" so I said "well the ministers letter was pretty clear as was the RCMPs what part of it didn't Bass Pro understand and he says again no one told them to stop doing it and its been done that way since 1979. Needless to say I was pretty irritated with the whole thing, so irritated I am going to call Bass Pro corporate and the ministers office and write a few letters. I would suggest we buy our guns at the places that understand the law and understand when they are told to stop doing something. Anyone know if WSS and some of the smaller guys are keeping ledgers?

[Joe Fehr]

I know I won't be buying from any store that keeps a ledger on firearm sales. If they record my license # and the serial # I will not be purchasing the firearm from that store.

[BruceW]

New Brunswick is the only province which currently does not have a long gun registry. 

Private sales are currently exempt.  "Currently".

[Tuc]

Most of those peons behind the firtearms counter wouldn't know their azz from a hole in the ground. They'll keep doing things the way they always done regardless of the new laws. If I went in there to buy a gun and they started recording my information I too would walk.

[MountainTi]

Most of those peons behind the firtearms counter wouldn't know their azz from a hole in the ground. They'll keep doing things the way they always done regardless of the new laws. If I went in there to buy a gun and they started recording my information I too would walk.

You do know that is the way it was done pre-registry? Ledgers were always kept in store only, and only for 5 years then destroyed.

[JIMMY 808]

I am not shocked buy much of Anything these days.  Registry or no registry the ability to track firearms is not difficult.   

[wildmeat]

guys you gotta remember too... they need to write down your name and the serial number of the rifle incase it needs to be returned to be fixed... what if they took no information and then your firing pin snaps a week later... they would have no record that you bought the gun there... there has to be some information taken down... it was this way even b4 the fac came into effect

my buddy works at p and d and says guys are flipping out left right and center because they ask for your name... well they have to in order to warranty it

[Paul]

That's true send in the warranty card and keep the receipt.

Its the principle of the whole thing. And even more annoying is the guy working the gun counter has no explanation for it. He had all kinds of stories, warranty wasn't one of them. What needs to happen is some political will to take away their dealers license if it continues, I bet it would stop in a hurry. Vic Toews talks a big game but that's all it is, talk.

[BruceW]

From what I've read it sounds like the provincial CFO's got together and planned this before C-19 was passed.  It's borderline sedition;  it's definitely illegal, but the feds don't seem to be stepping up to the plate.  As I understand it CFO's are forcing stores to keep records they can then access to keep the registry alive.  New Brunswick I believe has a provincially appointed CFO and has told them that this BS will not fly in New Brunswick.

As to the rest of Canada, yes, there is a long gun registry in place, at least on new purchases within the province.

What scares me is I've worked with enough middle management gov't employees to know with the cfo's ignoring federal law and instead furthering their own political agenda without any repercussions it won't be long before other departments start doing the same.

By the way, retailers in NB ship;  or if you prefer you can line up for your shearing.

It really does surprise me that the feds are allowing unelected peons to not only flaunt federal law, make their own, and enforce it with impunity.  I'm starting to wonder if our elections are merely to decide who sits in the fancy convertible in the parade.

[Tuc]

I think this whole thing stinks.... A friend of mine who is not pro Harper warned me of the Conservatives. He said they have hidden agenda's that were not in there platforms. I'm starting to see that now with the new EI reforms and raising the age to 67 for the old age pension. It seems they want to keep us under their thumbsat all measures. Keep us working until we croak aqnd paying that almighty tax dollar while they live the lavish life and get there big fat pensions.

Sorry guys, but I had to go a little off track here. I don't trust a politician!

[MountainTi]

Sorry. But that warranty thing is bull.your warranty is your receipt as serial number should be on it and some have registration cards in the gun box as well. So really no info needs to be recorded. Only thing that is required is to verify pal is valid.

At one time Russels used to record in a ledger any high end optics also, all for warranty purposes.

[sheepguide]

So what year was it started that it was required to use an FAC and stores documented new rifle sales?  I bought my first when I was 14 (23 years ago) and it was put through on my parents FAC and was documented on a ledger and all that same as it seems places are doing now.
So it seems that when the registry was scraped many places hve gone back to what things were prior to the registry.

[BruceW]

From what I've read the cfo's are making a ledger a condition of the licence to retailers, giving the cfo's unrestricted access, and that's the problem.  Effectively, the ledger does not belong to the store, but the cfo, and it's not for your benefit.
 
A change in gov't and the lgr's back in business with all the info on new purchases current.....except in NB.

At least that's how I understand it.   Anyone know a store owner?

[Tuc]

So what year was it started that it was required to use an FAC and stores documented new rifle sales?  I bought my first when I was 14 (23 years ago) and it was put through on my parents FAC and was documented on a ledger and all that same as it seems places are doing now.

1977
 Bill C-51 passed in the House of Commons. It then received Senate approval and Royal Assent on August 5. The two biggest changes included requirements for Firearms Acquisition Certificates (FACs) and requirements for Firearms and Ammunition Business Permits.
1979
 The requirements for FACs and Firearms and Ammunition Business Permits came into force. Both involved the screening of applicants and record-keeping systems. Provinces were given the option of requiring FAC applicants to take a firearm safety course.

Before these dates you were able to walk into a store and buy a rifle and there were no records kept except your receipt for warranty. So since 1979 there was a record keeping system in place for the purchase of all firearms, the Liberal gun registry brought a system in for all guns acquired prior to these dates.
Its my opinion they will never distroy these records. Some one (government) somewhere will always have a copy of what we own unless you were one of the few who chose not to register all your firearms before the Conservatives dismantled it.

[sheepguide]

Thanks Tuc!

[Tuc]

From what I've read the cfo's are making a ledger a condition of the licence to retailers, giving the cfo's unrestricted access, and that's the problem.

MLA fires challenge at PCs over 'shadow gun registry'

Wildrose say PC government needs to better protect gun-owner's rights, while minister shoots back terse reply

May 22, 2012 06:35 pm | Josh Marcellin

Lac La Biche-St Paul-Two Hills MLA and Wildrose Justice and Solicitor General critic Shayne Saskiw is taking a shot at the ruling PC government by challenging their so-called “soft stance” on protecting gun-owner’s rights.

Last week, Saskiw and the Wildrose released a statement proposing that Alberta should provincially appoint their Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) — an RCMP position that oversees gun licensing in each province — which currently falls under federal jurisdiction.

The release came in the wake of the controversy created by some CFOs, including the one in Alberta, requiring gun shop owners to keep records of rifle and shotgun purchases—what the Wildrose are calling a de facto ‘shadow gun registry.’

“This is akin to the wasteful long-gun registry that was rightfully scrapped by our friends in the federal government,” Saskiw told the Post. “We believe Albertans have been loud and clear in their opposition to any kind of long-gun registry.”

LONG-GUN REGISTRY SCRAPPED IN APRIL

The mandatory long-gun registry was scrapped – and all re­cords ordered de­stroyed – by the federal PCs in April of this year, after costing over $1 billion since it was introduced in 1995.

Since the allegations came out that some CFOs were asking gun shop owners to keep records of unrestricted firearms purchases, RCMP Com­missioner of Firearms Bob Paulson issued a statement that explicitly banned the practice.

“I instruct all Chief Firearms Officers to ensure that the licensing conditions you impose on business records pursuant to the Firearms Act do not facilitate the creation of long-gun registries in your jurisdictions,” commissioner Paulson said in the May 10 statement.

Still, Saskiw said the Alberta PC government should push to have CFOs provincially pointed—like Ontario, Que­bec, Nova Scotia, P.E.I and New Bruns­wick currently do—which would make them accountable to Alberta’s Solicitor General.

“Though our ties remain strong with the current federal government, we believe it is important to ensure interference by Ottawa bureaucrats does not become common practice in future years,” Saskiw said.

PCS SHOOT BACK

However, Alberta Min­ister of Justice and Solicitor General Jonathan Denis is firing back at the Wildrose. He said that historically, Alberta’s Pro­gressive Conservative government has been a staunch opponent of any kind of long-gun registry—even taking the matter to the Supreme Court of Canada in the mid-1990s.

“I strongly disagree with [Saskiw’s] comments,” Denis told the Post. “Alberta simply does not and will not have a long-gun registry in any form. I don’t know how much more emphatic we could be—we’ve been fighting it for 20 years.”

The PC government have not said they will push to have CFOs appointed provincially, with Denis saying the federal government has already said loud and clear they will not tolerate anything resembling another long-gun registry in any form.

There is still a mandatory registry for restricted weapons, including certain handguns and semi-automatic firearms, as well as firearms that can fold to lengths less than 66 centimetres.

[MountainTi]

1977
 Bill C-51 passed in the House of Commons. It then received Senate approval and Royal Assent on August 5. The two biggest changes included requirements for Firearms Acquisition Certificates (FACs) and requirements for Firearms and Ammunition Business Permits.
1979
 The requirements for FACs and Firearms and Ammunition Business Permits came into force. Both involved the screening of applicants and record-keeping systems. Provinces were given the option of requiring FAC applicants to take a firearm safety course.

Before these dates you were able to walk into a store and buy a rifle and there were no records kept except your receipt for warranty. So since 1979 there was a record keeping system in place for the purchase of all firearms, the Liberal gun registry brought a system in for all guns acquired prior to these dates.
Its my opinion they will never distroy these records. Some one (government) somewhere will always have a copy of what we own unless you were one of the few who chose not to register all your firearms before the Conservatives dismantled it.

I always have to chuckle a bit when so many people think that most guns were actually registered when the law came about.

[BruceW]

“I instruct all Chief Firearms Officers to ensure that the licensing conditions you impose on business records pursuant to the Firearms Act do not facilitate the creation of long-gun registries in your jurisdictions,” commissioner Paulson said in the May 10 statement.[/b]

Now there's the part some of you maybe don't understand is going on.  The cfo's have chosen to ignore this instruction and instead further their own personal political agenda by tying this requirement to a firearms sales licence.  What makes it worse is it is apparent that this was planned prior to the, "end" of the lgr with the undeniable intent of circumventing federal law (and that's borderline sedition,  I should think illegal).   Mr. Teows appears to be doing nothing about this.  Keep in mind if I'm not mistaken, cfo's are rcmp employees who are not following federal instructions.  This is serious, and goes FAR beyond any lgr issues.

I'll say it again, the Only province whose cfo/provincial gov't is NOT involved in this appears to be N.B.

I'm no expert on this, I just try to keep up with my reading.

The appearance of something being done doesn't mean anything Has been done.

[BruceW]

Was thinking, possibly the NFA and/or CSSA people might be up to date on this stuff???

edit:  Checked;  Front page on the CSSA website, had to look a little to find it on the NFA website.

Incidentally, if you're not a member of these org's, it would behoove you to give them a look-see.   

[Tuc]

MT, I assume you are referring to the recent gun registry. The FAC was a piece of document required to purchase and register a new firearm.

 Yes, there were many who didn't register under the Liberal gun registry, most of them crooks. Of course you have the LUFA bunch were it is estimated about 30% of law abiding citizens didn't register and I would guess most of those were farmers.
http://lufa.ca/
Check out the updates, a few recent articles in there.