Author Topic: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.  (Read 1674 times)

deerman

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Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« on: June 07, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »

I sit on this committee and we had out spring/summer meeting the other day.
There was a good deal of enforcement on the May long weekend and there will be a good deal of enforcement of the Public Lands Act regulations (PLAR) this summer and into the fall.

Some stats from ESRD rep. on what happened on the May long weekend pointed to less people out in the area west of Rocky/Sundre area this year but more regulations violations and more emergency room visits at the hospitals in Rocky and Sundre.

NO FATALITIES this year.

More people putting garbage in the dumpsters put out in the west country and less trash at random campsites.  A fairly high number of campfires left unattended (left the campsite and didn't put out their fires).

A fairly high number of people picked up on outstanding warrants.  (who knew criminals liked camping on the long weekend so much)

The fellow from Forestry Recreation had talked to some Forestry staff in Whitecourt and they said they had interviewed some "campers" who said they used to go west of Rocky but do not go there any more because there is an enforcement officer behind every tree and they keep getting stopped and checked.

deerman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 10:30:05 AM »
Another meeting up coming in Feb.

The question of how much enforcement and who is going to be doing it is still a big topic.

OHVs driving in streams is a big one.  There have been some regulation changes that maybe getting more enforcement and more tickets and less warnings given out.


Prohibition 43   

No person, other than an employee, agent or contractor of the
Government of Alberta who is carrying out the personís duties, shall enter on or occupy vacant public land that is a bed or shore of a permanent and naturally occurring body of water or a naturally occurring river, stream, watercourse or lake except
(a)   where the entry and occupation is for a recreational purpose that
(i)   involves boating,
(ii)   involves travel on frozen ground or on ice capable of holding the weight of the conveyance without making a depression on the ground or ice or breaking the ice, or
(iii)   does not involve the use of a wheeled or tracked conveyance,
(b)   in accordance with a disposition issued or a consent given to the person under the Act, or
(c)   where the person has a lawful right to be on the land or the entry or occupation is expressly permitted in an applicable disturbance standard or in a disposition issued to the person.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 10:47:34 AM by deerman »

walleyes

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 12:06:59 PM »
Rules, Rules, Rules..

I especially like how Government employee's can cross creeks with machines but everyone else is an idiot and cant..

If its that sensitive of an area then it should be FOOT access only and that's everyone,,, regardless of your business in there.. I bet there is no restriction from horses tearing the crap out of the creek banks is there..

Rules, Rules, Rules,, you all can have them mountains,, when I go in the bush I do so to be left alone and that's from everyone and everyone's rules and eyes.. They will eventually regulate the hunt right out of hunting,, you watch..
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 12:12:55 PM by walleyes »

deerman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 09:56:31 AM »

Rules, Rules,Rules...

Sometimes new rules are required to deal with new problems that have come up.

Here is a recreation problem (a stream crossing) that needs to be stopped.

[attachment deleted 180 days old]

walleyes

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 12:11:10 PM »
Lol,, geez its pouring rain and there is silt going in a river,, imagine that,, never would of thought. Why didn't you go down river 200 yards where the bank gave way and all that silt is washing in,, or how about on the cattle crossings where all that silt is washing in mixed in with the manure..

Look,, I have nothing against closing sensitive areas down,, but if they are sensitive and need restrictions then these restrictions have to apply to everyone,, including the game wardens that are to lazy to walk in and camp for a while and keep an eye on things..

I am sure there are many OHV that are responsible users of this area,, why punish them for the mess the morons make,, criminals shoot people with guns,, why don't we let the authorities take guns away from us all. There is nothing wrong with OHV creek crossings, they do no more damage in most cases than mother nature her self does,, its just they make noise doing it so it must be bad.. If there are spots that are getting heavy use and damage,, shut them down to all users until they repair themselves..

Simple abuse of,, my way is the only way mentally that is going to regulate us all out of the woods !!

So keep up with the regulations your doing the sport a great deed..

weeman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 01:51:21 PM »
  I have heard and read the articles about the chemicals from farm operations that do a lot more damage than silt would ever do. Did you know that Saskatchewan has some of the highest rates for M.S in Canada.  :( The cause is pesticides on there farm land. ATV's do cause damage but farming and oil development has really made a bigger impact. Maybe government needs to regulate themselves when dealing with oil and farming development. There are areas were fish habitat needs to be monitored and protected but that includes all industries like oil, farming, construction.
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walleyes

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 02:17:51 PM »
I would like to know in who's brain,, in who's mind is it safer to put domesticated animals out there with wild animals than it is to have a machine out there. My machine has no disease has never had any toxic chemicals fed to it that it transfers to wild game. And before you go on a rant about gas and oil,, very few machines leak any oil and if they do the amount they may leave is absolutely minute in any way. These cattle and horses sit in pens all winter being fed grasses that are not native to a lot of areas, we load them with antibodies to fight disease some of these cattle not all are penned in confinement in crowded pens all winter. Then somehow its safer to take that animal a let it loose in the wild with what ever it has been exposed to all winter we let it go in the wild with our wild game.. Some how this is safer than a non organic machine going in those same lands..

Just blows my mind,, there is just no rationality there..

JIMMY 808

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 02:46:35 PM »
One day I will be telling my son or grandkids yup back in the olden days I used to ride horse up XXX pass or was able to ATV from point A to point B Ö  the olden days 2014 think about that for a min.
  As my dead grandfather used to say:
  In my day we used to shit outside and eat inside know everyone wants to shit inside and eat outside!

Old men sitting on comities for future polices makes sense? 

weeman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 02:53:22 PM »
I would like to know in who's brain,, in who's mind is it safer to put domesticated animals out there with wild animals than it is to have a machine out there. My machine has no disease has never had any toxic chemicals fed to it that it transfers to wild game. And before you go on a rant about gas and oil,, very few machines leak any oil and if they do the amount they may leave is absolutely minute in any way. These cattle and horses sit in pens all winter being fed grasses that are not native to a lot of areas, we load them with antibodies to fight disease some of these cattle not all are penned in confinement in crowded pens all winter. Then somehow its safer to take that animal a let it loose in the wild with what ever it has been exposed to all winter we let it go in the wild with our wild game.. Some how this is safer than a non organic machine going in those same lands..
Just blows my mind,, there is just no rationality there..
ATV's are on the bottom of the list for environmental damage. Most people who own machines take care of them.
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weeman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 02:56:23 PM »
OHVs driving in streams is a big one.  There have been some regulation changes that maybe getting more enforcement and more tickets and less warnings given out.


Prohibition 43   

No person, other than an employee, agent or contractor of the
Government of Alberta who is carrying out the personís duties, shall enter on or occupy vacant public land that is a bed or shore of a permanent and naturally occurring body of water or a naturally occurring river, stream, watercourse or lake except
(a)   where the entry and occupation is for a recreational purpose that
(i)   involves boating,
(ii)   involves travel on frozen ground or on ice capable of holding the weight of the conveyance without making a depression on the ground or ice or breaking the ice, or
(iii)   does not involve the use of a wheeled or tracked conveyance,
(b)   in accordance with a disposition issued or a consent given to the person under the Act, or
(c)   where the person has a lawful right to be on the land or the entry or occupation is expressly permitted in an applicable disturbance standard or in a disposition issued to the person. - See more at:
Deerman how did they come up with this data ? What is the source of here ?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 03:05:59 PM by weeman »
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weeman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 03:18:56 PM »
I sit on this committee and we had out spring/summer meeting the other day.
There was a good deal of enforcement on the May long weekend and there will be a good deal of enforcement of the Public Lands Act regulations (PLAR) this summer and into the fall.

Some stats from ESRD rep. on what happened on the May long weekend pointed to less people out in the area west of Rocky/Sundre area this year but more regulations violations and more emergency room visits at the hospitals in Rocky and Sundre.

NO FATALITIES this year.

More people putting garbage in the dumpsters put out in the west country and less trash at random campsites.  A fairly high number of campfires left unattended (left the campsite and didn't put out their fires).

A fairly high number of people picked up on outstanding warrants.  (who knew criminals liked camping on the long weekend so much)

The fellow from Forestry Recreation had talked to some Forestry staff in Whitecourt and they said they had interviewed some "campers" who said they used to go west of Rocky but do not go there any more because there is an enforcement officer behind every tree and they keep getting stopped and checked.
These are isolated incidents The actions of a few should not be reflected on the majority of people.
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walleyes

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 03:34:06 PM »
I sit on this committee and we had out spring/summer meeting the other day.
There was a good deal of enforcement on the May long weekend and there will be a good deal of enforcement of the Public Lands Act regulations (PLAR) this summer and into the fall.

Some stats from ESRD rep. on what happened on the May long weekend pointed to less people out in the area west of Rocky/Sundre area this year but more regulations violations and more emergency room visits at the hospitals in Rocky and Sundre.

NO FATALITIES this year.

More people putting garbage in the dumpsters put out in the west country and less trash at random campsites.  A fairly high number of campfires left unattended (left the campsite and didn't put out their fires).

A fairly high number of people picked up on outstanding warrants.  (who knew criminals liked camping on the long weekend so much)

The fellow from Forestry Recreation had talked to some Forestry staff in Whitecourt and they said they had interviewed some "campers" who said they used to go west of Rocky but do not go there any more because there is an enforcement officer behind every tree and they keep getting stopped and checked.

This one really gets me,, here's one we can all be proud of in this province eh.. Harass the people to no end so they leave an area,, another proud Alberta moment.

deerman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 03:57:34 PM »
OHVs driving in streams is a big one.  There have been some regulation changes that maybe getting more enforcement and more tickets and less warnings given out.


Prohibition 43   

No person, other than an employee, agent or contractor of the
Government of Alberta who is carrying out the personís duties, shall enter on or occupy vacant public land that is a bed or shore of a permanent and naturally occurring body of water or a naturally occurring river, stream, watercourse or lake except
(a)   where the entry and occupation is for a recreational purpose that
(i)   involves boating,
(ii)   involves travel on frozen ground or on ice capable of holding the weight of the conveyance without making a depression on the ground or ice or breaking the ice, or
(iii)   does not involve the use of a wheeled or tracked conveyance,
(b)   in accordance with a disposition issued or a consent given to the person under the Act, or
(c)   where the person has a lawful right to be on the land or the entry or occupation is expressly permitted in an applicable disturbance standard or in a disposition issued to the person. - See more at:
Deerman how did they come up with this data ? What is the source of here ?

Not sure what "data" you are referring to.  What I have quoted there and you repeated was the section in the Public Lands Administration Regulations (PLAR).

If you look at the pictures I provided and don't see damage to fish habitat then there is no point in me saying anything else.  This crossing is NOT the result of "a few bad apples"  it is thousands of nice people out for a sunday ride on their OHVs.  The shear numbers of recreational OHV uses is a problem.

There are all kinds of problems out in the west country (back country) but it doesn't make any sense to say "leave the OHVs alone because cows or something else are worst".  They ALL need to cured. 

I have just pointed out the OHV problem here.

walleyes

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 04:08:37 PM »
Some of the most productive fisheries in this province like the, Athabasca, Peace River, Pembina, North Sask, South Sask (which by the way feeds every one of those southern Res and canals of its fish) every one of these fisheries when it rains are nothing more than mud holes. For 2 months every spring during the mountain melt that SS river is a slew,, you cant see 6" in that water. The Walleye turn a faded white yellow from lack of sunlight. The banks fall in,, huge banks spewing thousand of yards of loose silt and sand into the river. Yet these rivers all remain staple spawning grounds, has anybody ever thought this out..

Yes some rivers have been miss treated, with logging done up to the banks along huge hill sides resulting in clogged rivers, but this is a far cry from a few machines using a crossing.

Instead of taking the "my way or no way" stance and regulating people out of an area why not have designated crossings for people to use why would this be any harder to enforce than having no crossings.

Put some bloody common sense into it, but of course there would be no fines levied,, no money in that to stuff in the union pockets now would there be.

All the time and effort and recourses and money put into running around and fining people and turning this bloody place into a Police State,, all this would be much better put to use in building crossings putting in garbage bins, putting up fire pits. Make something for the people don't regulate the ass out of everything,, quit regulating people out of the outdoors..

 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 04:15:59 PM by walleyes »

weeman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 04:49:13 PM »
Deerman provide the links for this comment in op.
Some stats from ESRD rep. on what happened on the May long weekend pointed to less people out in the area west of Rocky/Sundre area this year but more regulations violations and more emergency room visits at the hospitals in Rocky and Sundre.
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deerman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 07:58:23 PM »

Here is a patial quote from the minutes from the standing committee meeting in Oct. of 2013.

Activities, Enforcement, Signing

May long Ė ESRD has been removed from enforcement capabilities - no tickets issued by them.  It was a quieter spring and may have been due to the threat of fire ban.  Still lots going on however, with deaths, injuries, garbage; but somewhat less.  As for the task force, we were one of the key members so with us being removed we are unsure of the integrity for the future years.  RCMP are still interested in doing patrols.  We had people available to show them the areas and the MOU suggests we share equipment and access.  People at least got to see some enforcement.  There has been an increase in illegal activity seen and an increase in complaints.

I know there were some numbers given in the "enforcement report" in another meeting but I could not find those minutes in my e-mail account.

Is that the kind of thing you wanted?

deerman

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Re: Bighorn Backcountry Access Management committee.
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2014, 09:06:47 PM »
Some of the most productive fisheries in this province like the, Athabasca, Peace River, Pembina, North Sask, South Sask (which by the way feeds every one of those southern Res and canals of its fish) every one of these fisheries when it rains are nothing more than mud holes. For 2 months every spring during the mountain melt that SS river is a slew,, you cant see 6" in that water. The Walleye turn a faded white yellow from lack of sunlight. The banks fall in,, huge banks spewing thousand of yards of loose silt and sand into the river. Yet these rivers all remain staple spawning grounds, has anybody ever thought this out..

Yes some rivers have been miss treated, with logging done up to the banks along huge hill sides resulting in clogged rivers, but this is a far cry from a few machines using a crossing.

Instead of taking the "my way or no way" stance and regulating people out of an area why not have designated crossings for people to use why would this be any harder to enforce than having no crossings.

Put some bloody common sense into it, but of course there would be no fines levied,, no money in that to stuff in the union pockets now would there be.

All the time and effort and recourses and money put into running around and fining people and turning this bloody place into a Police State,, all this would be much better put to use in building crossings putting in garbage bins, putting up fire pits. Make something for the people don't regulate the ass out of everything,, quit regulating people out of the outdoors..


Have a look at the second picture I posted.  You see the stream flowing by with a bit of "natural" discolouration.  And you see the water flowing down the OHV trail and into the stream with a much higher silt load.  You do see that don't you?

In a natural situation the natural siltation is dealt with by the stream with the high flows that go with it.  The silt is flushed down stream.

 "unnatural silt" as from bank disturbance (cows or quads or oilfield and logging roads) gets into the stream when there is not really high flows so the silt does not get flushed down but just goes down into the first slower area and is deposited.