Cowboys 0 - Wild Horse 1

[sheepguide]

Found this fellow today. Looks like he had a close encounter of the cowboy kind!  But looks like he made an escape! No brands and paid no attention to an oat bucket. Also is as spooky as hell so im pretty sure its of wild stock. Looks like someone came close to getting him out of the west country.

[deerman]

A lot of people would guess that it was a horse belonging to someone and it got loose and is now running with some feral horses.

[sheepguide]

Yep a lot of unknowledgeable people may. How many people will haul a horse a min. of 80 - 100km  to drop a unwanted horse off? 98% of people would rather make $500 -$800 at a sale then spend $100 at least in fuel to just drop it off. Anyways that's all speculation on both sides. 

[nube]

I hate to say it but I am going to.   You should have been shooting with a different type of "camera" Darcy

[JIMMY 808]

Maybe he was cought and let go so the cowboy can say he is just trying to get his property back? If he gets
Cought.

[JIMMY 808]

I can say with some confidence that there will never be a wild horse season.  So basically moot comments.

[JIMMY 808]

Feral animal does not require a season.  Nor should there ever be.  They were let go as domestic animals way back when that were left. To me they are no different than a dog on the Indian reserve.

  You can shit in one hand and wish in the other.  See what you
Get first.

[nube]

Jimmy, I have my own horses and I see you are a horse guy as well but if you have spent some time in certain areas of the province you have to aggree that there is a problem and soemthing needs to be done about it.  I don't like the idea of running around shooting horses either but what do you do.  I would prefer to have more elk and sheep habitat myself than a bunch of wild horses.  I saw piles of them when I was hunting Grizz between Hinton and Rob and although I found it very cool to find them they sure left a mess everywhere.

[JIMMY 808]

Jimmy, I have my own horses and I see you are a horse guy as well but if you have spent some time in certain areas of the province you have to aggree that there is a problem and soemthing needs to be done about it.  I don't like the idea of running around shooting horses either but what do you do.  I would prefer to have more elk and sheep habitat myself than a bunch of wild horses.  I saw piles of them when I was hunting Grizz between Hinton and Rob and although I found it very cool to find them they sure left a mess everywhere.

  Soft fuzzy feel good criter we will never be shooting them.


  How many buffalo used to graze in these areas ?   I can't say about sheep habitat but as far as elk go SRD has a hate for them there goal is not to increase numbers what so ever IMO.  Want more habitat clear cut
Logging and start burning.

[JIMMY 808]

What does that have to do with anything? I have no problem with horses as I grew up riding them all over ranches and other places. But they are not a native wild animal and should be delt with. Capture them or whatever I don't care. But a feral animal does steal from our NATIVE wildlife and has to be delt with. I am sorry you disagree.

  Grizzly hunting, bull trout limit, feral wild Horses.  It is what it is not going to change.

[bigbore444]

No doubt these horses are a problem in certain areas. Control there numbers and leave em alone. Then everyone is happy.

Spirit of the West, thats the way I see it. I like seeing them personelly.

[sheepguide]

Maybe we should remove the elk guys? They arent native in many areas in the west country! But are there now. Many years ago the mountains these horses are in had no elk in them. They were introduced or reintroduced after total population decreases. These horses in many areas of the mountains have been running free for more consecutive years than elk. The issue in the west has nothing to do with the horses. Guys say horse numbers are double or triple. Yep they are but feed and grasses opened up are probably 20 times as much so lack of feed and competition is far from an issue in any of these areas. Ill take you tomorrow to places with herds of 20 - 30+ horses living that unles you see the shit you wouldnt even be able to tell they lived there and feed is knee deep. I can also take you to areas that aren 10x the size just a mile or so from the horses that they never go to that used to hold elk. Why if the competition in one spot do they not just walk over the next ridge? The issues most of you blame on the horses are far from being caused by the horses. All the years the elk numbers were dropping you would never see a skinny or starving elk. All were healthy and doing well but were unable to compete with one animal out there. And it wasnt elk it was the wolves. When elk populatuions were at some of the best in the upper clearwater area there was way more horses out there being raised by a rancher by the name of Bill Winders. The medows in the area were also being hayed in them days so with large herds of domestic horses, hay land taking feed and no new growth from logging and such the elk should have been in way tougher shape then. But they thrived with some awesome hunting. What was the difference? Predator harvest!!!!!  Trappers actually trapped!!
Another thing that was right at the lead of the decline was a mature bull only season. When we could shoot any bull the elk thrived. Lower hunter numbers and all healthy mature bulls were harvested leaving less geneticaly superior bull left to breed. Just like beef cows a lower quality bull will throw smaller calves and calves not as strong or healthy. Poorer gentics have for sure taken affect on calf survival without doubt.

If you dont beleive any of this step back and explain why the are elk populations on the Yaha, Scalp Creek, and Panther that have the highest elk population decrease done so with no wild/feral horse populations? But they do hive high wolf populations and a mature bull only season!!! Exactly the same circumstance as the foothills but with one difference. These areas and the other areas are experiencing the same populkation issues but the horses only affect one. If horses were an issue of high impact the areas would be in worse condition but at this point the areas with out the wild/feral horses are having larges population decreases and habitat problems!!!!

Yes horses need to be controlled but right now they are an easy blame for what is happening.
SG

[sheepguide]

You may wanna look up your mountain history as for your info Justin there was a large time period south west, west and north west  of where I live that elk were non existant in the mountain WMU's!!!!!!!!   The herds that were there prior to this last large decrease were introduced and the populations increased to the  numbers that were out there prior to me or you hunting. And guess what was there the whole time them elk population went from low or zero to healthy numbers then back down to todays low low numbers. Wild/feral horses.

[sheepguide]

Elk are a wild animal in certain areas of the world, so are horses. So how is adding one different then adding another to an area they arent naturaly from or that have naturaly been eliminated from?

[Sonny]

Jimmy,  I saw piles of them when I was hunting Grizz between Hinton and Rob

So how many years ago was that anyway?

[rightwing]

The horses don't bother me, I kind of like seeing them to. At the same time if the odd horse is shot here and there I'm not to worried about it.

As far as the low elk numbers one old timer told me years ago the government relocated many of the alpha males in the Panther and the remaining young bulls and the herd lost their migrating path. Or maybe it was the wolves, who knows for sure. Many older guys from home had camps in the panther during 50's-70's and just one typical camp pulled in several elk a week, they would fill the tags bring them home and get another one quite common I guess. Now there is very limited tags and your lucky to fill it. I spent a week in there on horseback last November and never even seen a cow. Kind of the same story with our moose camp, moose numbers are very low also.

[nube]

Last year they had Grizz on draw.  Can't remember what year it was.

[Sonny]

Last year they had Grizz on draw.  Can't remember what year it was.

Cool....

I thought all grizz were Verboten but I'm glad to see that I was wrong..

Seen a young one in the tri-creeks area a short time ago..

[attachment deleted 180 days old]

[sheepguide]

The horses don't bother me, I kind of like seeing them to. At the same time if the odd horse is shot here and there I'm not to worried about it.

As far as the low elk numbers one old timer told me years ago the government relocated many of the alpha males in the Panther and the remaining young bulls and the herd lost their migrating path. Or maybe it was the wolves, who knows for sure. Many older guys from home had camps in the panther during 50's-70's and just one typical camp pulled in several elk a week, they would fill the tags bring them home and get another one quite common I guess. Now there is very limited tags and your lucky to fill it. I spent a week in there on horseback last November and never even seen a cow. Kind of the same story with our moose camp, moose numbers are very low also.

Ya that Panther area was a mecca for huge bulls(got a 378 in my shop from there). Started really reducing in numbers in the early 90's. When I started guiding in there around 1995 the numbers were already getting pretty low. Ken Fraser had most of the tags then after the large quota decreases and took a few bulls but not like the area was know for. Always saw a few on JI hill, in the upper Dog Rib and the odd bunch in the Jap crossing area but they were sparse and were nothing like the numbers the old timers that I spent time with in there used to talk about and show pictures of. Heard the same thoughts from many on it being due to predators and over harvest of the mature bulls and their genetics. Back then there was maybe 5-8 wild horse living in that area and usually were on JI with the elk mixed right in.

[sheepguide]

I hate to say it but I am going to.   You should have been shooting with a different type of "camera" Darcy

Why is that? I dont seen any need for a wastful killing of one of these. There are extra permits to capture these horses now so maybe a few guys will step up and help control the populations. I have a buddy that took 40 head out this past winter.