Excellent Alex Pierson interview of Lorne Gunter; HR gungrab, "report"

[BruceW]

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2015/02/20150211-184307.html

In case anyone hasn't seen it, here's the, "report".  I'd suggest if you have any first hand knowledge or have made any attempt whatsoever to familiarize yourself of the facts not to read in on an empty stomach, it'll make you want to puke.  The omissions are much greater than the content.
https://www.crcc-ccetp.gc.ca/en/chair-initiated-complaint-and-public-interest-investigation-rcmps-response-2013-flood-high-river

[Sonny]

I didn't read it but I heard a bit about it on the radio this afternoon.

Basically they said that most of the guns grabbed were stored unsafe but that they may have grabbed a few that they shouldn't have......bottom line is?

Tough beans....suck it up.

No apology to the public or nothing..

[Walleyes]

Really guys,, you expected something differant. We live in a police state don't have any other delusions running around your head otherwise.

[BruceW]

Remember that Edward Burke quote:  "In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing."

I'm not about to roll over and fortunately for both of us I'm not alone.  While rule of law, personal freedom and our very democracy are being tested by those with fascist dreams in this land they still exist.

[stubblejumper]

The report did state that some firearms were seized illegally, that the RCMP had no legal authority to take the legally stored firearms. There is now a class action lawsuit going, as well as several private lawsuits. I have already written to my MP, my MLA, the Premier, and the Prime Minister, demanding that the officers responsible for the illegal acts be help accountable. People can either sit around and complain, or they can also write their representatives. You can be certain that the authorities are hoping that this is forgotten soon, but if enough people complain to the correct people, it is possible that at least something might be done to appease us.

[Marmot]

Theres a class action lawsuit ramping up but so what... the only people feeling the pinch from that will be tax payers.
 I don't care whether they knew it was wrong or not or whether they were "just following orders".

Fact is the popo have a requirement to know the law and to know what a lawful order is and is not.

Dang Crown needs to pursue this or quit pretending that the law in this country is fair and unbiased for everyone.

[JIMMY 808]

It isn’t about the money Marmot.

[BruceW]

I believe with the lawsuits those involved can be forced to testify under oath;  further evidence can be presented that the report somehow missed or forgot.

Good on you Stubblejumper, In addition to being in contact with my elected representatives I also wrote Peter Mackay yesterday.

And you're right Marmot, feigning ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse.  I really can't believe Canadians are supposed to be satisfied with BS like, "We made a few mistake's", or, "we'll make policy changes to improve such a scenario"  (not exact quotes but the sentiment.)

Illegal is illegal.  If such an aggregious assault on Canadians goes unpunished next time they will be much more aggressive and violent.  The slippery slope is getting greased by dreams of fascism.  We cannot allow the guilty to go unpunished.

Slave lake, the G7 fiasco, HR, tazing people to death, shooting and assaulting unarmed people, the list goes on and on.  Time to call a spade a spade and recognize what we're dealing with here.  Bottom line is the rcmp are no longer trustworthy;  the change within it has to come from the top down to make any difference.

[Walleyes]

Not justifying what the popo did here guys but I wonder what the reaction would have been if people's guns would have been looted from there homes. There would have been an outrage because the police didn't protect their property..

Kind of a damned if they do damned if they don't situation..

You couldn't give me that thankless job for all the money in the world,, no sir..

[stubblejumper]

I don't for a second buy into the excuse that the RCMP illegally seized firearms in order to keep them from being stolen. After all, you didn't hear about the RCMP taking any other personal property, like jewelery, or high dollar electronics, or optics, to keep it from being stolen did you?

[Sonny]

I don't for a second buy into the excuse that the RCMP illegally seized firearms in order to keep them from being stolen. After all, you didn't hear about the RCMP taking any other personal property, like jewelery, or high dollar electronics, or optics, to keep it from being stolen did you?

Yup

[BruceW]

The town was under lockdown.  Armed barricades, patrols.  Likely the most secure community in Canada's history.

I have a hunch things will be entered as evidence in the civil suits that will assuage any remaining support for the looters;  damning things that for some reason weren't included in the, "report".

I keep saying it, they should have just come clean from the start.  Being remorseless and disdainful will only lower their status in the public's eye. 

[stubblejumper]

The town was under lockdown.  Armed barricades, patrols.  Likely the most secure community in Canada's history.

I have a hunch things will be entered as evidence in the civil suits that will assuage any remaining support for the looters;  damning things that for some reason weren't included in the, "report".

I keep saying it, they should have just come clean from the start.  Being remorseless and disdainful will only lower their status in the public's eye.

Unfortunately, given the RCMP pattern of lies and cover ups over the past several years, their status is about as low as it can go. It's to the point where a large percentage of the public no longer trusts them as an organization.

[Paul]

OK so there is a major event and we all get evacuated. A person with authority tells me to go check on you so I stay behind and I go to check on your house. I knock and no one answers, I would assume you are safe away somewhere. I then kick your $2000 front door in and tromp around your new carpet and hardwood floors in my muddy boots and root through your most private personal items. I take 3 or 4 firearms that you have in a closet and take them back to my house for "safekeeping". I realize I could be in trouble so I call you and tell you I have your guns and you can come get them as long as you can prove their yours. Now tell me, did I break the law? Should I be forgiven because I offered to give them back? Should I be forgiven because I was told to do what I did by someone with authority?

I guarantee you there is not a single member, right from the top to the first year constable, who doubts any of their actions. They feel smug and justified and probably chuckle about it from time to time, there is a lot of "don't worry it will blow over" and "they can't hold us responsible". How do I know this? Because I have known lots of cops over the years, my dad was a cop for 20 years, I know how they think, I know how they talk to each other. So therein lies the actual problem, they believe what they did was OK, that's why no one will ever be held accountable, if there is a lawsuit the persons responsible should be liable, not the taxpayers.

[BruceW]

There's one class action suit filed that I'm aware of, and it's my understanding there are individual suits being filed as well.  From my limited research and non existant legal knowledge there is no statute of limitations in Canada for things like break, enter, theft, collusion, destruction of property and vandalism.
While it's my understanding the report investigators could not call any rcmp at all as witnesses, nor demand things like their video's, it's also my understanding those same mentioned can be called as witnesses and placed under oath during the civil proceedings.

Point being, this ain't over, not by a long shot.  It hasn't even begun yet.....they should've just come clean when they had the chance.  That chance is passed now and the second those suits were filed the lines have been drawn.  Very simple now, one side represents the victims, the other side the perpetrator's.

Can't get any clearer than that.

[Marmot]

It isn’t about the money Marmot.

I agree.

Its about control and accountability.

Governments at all levels are less accountable to the people while we seem to be increasingly accountable to them.

In democractic countries we used to elect representatives and hire protectors but it has evolved to become a system where we now elect our masters and pay our guards.

Pretty big decent and it happened fast to.
Seems to me that since PET decided to mess around with the BNA....every government has run with the loopholes within that document and made things worse than they already were and that the pace of it is increasing.

Sad really... when I was still in the military... I thought I was protecting rights against outside threats but the real threat was from within and hard at work behind my back.

[honkerhitter]

I would hope those placing the class action lawsuits , would have contacted and included people from the slave lake fires as this was the first confiscation testing grounds! Many reports of gun safes Peter open and firearms taken in the days after the fire..
 Marmot - thanks for your service ,  I'd say they average Joe appreciates the commitment and fortitude of our troops.