Author Topic: Gun registry stupidness  (Read 1791 times)

nube

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Gun registry stupidness
« on: May 06, 2012, 08:02:28 PM »
Read the Edmonton Sun today about the registry.  Like I stated before I had reservations of the Concervatives actually pulling it off for good.  Well they have not been able to do it afterall like I figured.  The sun says all provinces other than Saskatchewan and Quebec as well as the Northern Provinces will have to register their guns at the store they buy them at.  It sounds like the old system we used to have with your PAL number as well as serial number, address and name attatched to it all.  Sad but the PC are not even fighting it either.  Toews or ahtever his name is said they are not going to enforce anything and provinces can do what they want.  The firearms chief officers are the ones making the rules now.  Question is now how do we get them fired!!!

walleyes

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2012, 08:19:09 PM »
Read the same thing today, just typical in this country. Bunch of Liberal idiots. This registry thing is nothing new though as we all know they have been keeping records for over 30 years now. You remember the old registry books all the old gun shops used to keep. This thing they are talking about sounds pretty much the same. Still doesn't make it right though. 

rightwing

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 11:01:49 PM »
This wouldn't of happen under a Wildrose government!

Guido

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 07:37:21 AM »
This wouldn't of happen under a Wildrose government!

I agree, Our current liberal gov't. would love to have the old registry back.

Paul

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 09:08:34 AM »
Vic has put the kibosh on this going so far as to say it's illegal

OTTAWA - Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has threatened bring the law down on any provincial or territorial chief firearms officer who insists on setting up a back-door long-gun registry.

Toews sent the letter after Sun News Network and QMI Agency broke the news that Ontario's chief firearms officer (CFO) was forcing gun shop owners to collect personal information from buyers of hunting rifles despite Parliament's abolition of the long-gun registry with Bill C-19.

“If it comes to your attention that CFOs are interpreting the Firearms Act as a basis for unauthorized data collection, please advise me immediately,” Toews wrote in a letter Tuesday to RCMP Commissioner Robert Paulson.

“I am prepared to consider all legislative and regulatory measures necessary to give effect to the will of Canadians.”

That information was collected in ledgers owned by the CFO.

The minister says any CFO who persists with those actions is “breaking the law.”

“The CFOs are not to engage in the collection of information of that nature,” Toews said. “That runs contrary to C-19.”

Gun law specialist Ed Burlew said the minister leaves CFOs no choice but stop their back-door registries.

“If I were a CFO, I would have to salute, click my heels, and say, ‘I’ll obey my commander’ because I see no wiggle room whatsoever,” said Burlew.

Bill C-19 required all data contained in the registry to be deleted.

Toews didn't say whether data collected in CFOs' ledgers since the abolition of the registry last month must be destroyed as well, but Burlew said he expects that would be the next logical step.
Poll


http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/05/08/toews-shoots-down-back-door-registries


Leafy

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2012, 09:33:43 AM »
This wouldn't of happen under a Wildrose government!

Nice, election is over and someone still wants to pound on the Wild Rose drum...   A paper system is pretty much similar to the way it use to be, only the vender of new firearms recording transactions, system will do nothing but create a log book on the retail side...

Leafy

Leafy

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2012, 10:47:23 AM »
But really this is no different then the registry other than the cops just have to collect info from stores instead of the data base.  Still a paper trail.  I agree with nube as this is still some sort of registration.

Won't do shat really, what is the law enforcement going to do ?   Oh, call for a domestic, wait, Whole Sale Sports is closed, better call someone in and see if this address has any weapons purchase as of 2012...   Just a joke in all reality, nothing will come of this other than a dusty log book under the counter at your local retailer..

Leafy

Paul

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2012, 11:03:28 AM »
Just a joke in all reality, nothing will come of this other than a dusty log book under the counter at your local retailer..

I agree, and completely unnecessary.

Rocky7

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 11:21:35 AM »
You should only have to show your pal and be able to walk out the door after you pay.  No paperwork of you at all.

Exactly.

The CPC agrees and Vic Toews has written a letter to give the RCMP a cuff to the side of the head.

Here it is:

Commissioner Robert Paulson

Assistant Commissioner Pierre Perron
Director General Canadian Firearms Program

--

Dear Commissioner Paulson and Assistant Commissioner Perron

Canadians gave our government a strong mandate to end the wasteful and ineffective long-gun registry once and for all. Bill C-19, the Ending the Long-Gun Registry Act, did just that.

It has been suggested in various media reports that Chief Firearms Officers, acting pursuant to their purported authority under the Firearms Act, are attempting to collect point of sale data that they are no longer authorized to collect pursuant to Bill C-19. To be clear, the Firearms Act neither authorizes this activity, nor any other measures that could facilitate the creation of a provincial long-gun registry.

The Canadian Firearms Program and the RCMP at large are to provide no assistance or direction to any province seeking to undertake measures of this nature, except as expressly required by valid provincial legislation. The position of the Federal Government, as dictated by the will of Canadians, is that registration of long-guns is wasteful and ineffective. I expect that this position will be fully respected at all times, while respecting the judicial injunction in Quebec that we will continue to vigorously oppose in the courts.

If it comes to your attention that CFOs are interpreting the Firearms Act as a basis for unauthorized data collection, please advise me immediately. I am prepared to consider all legislative and regulatory measures necessary to give effect to the will of Canadians.

Yours truly,

Vic Toews, P.C., Q.C., M.P.

Cc: All Chief Firearms Officers

nube

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2012, 12:27:41 PM »
Now Toews is changing his tune???  Last week he stated he didn't give a crap what the chief firearms guys did and now he is putting his foot down??  These guys need a swift kick tot he groin!

AxeMan

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2012, 04:33:43 PM »
Wow, what a bunch of crap.  It all boils down to different levels of government and even bureaucratic levels within those that think they have the right to rule as they wish.  Heads have to roll on this one.  Our privacy rights as gun owners are now being illegally compromised.  The data they are illegally collecting is also potentially very dangerous in the hands of the wrong people and is definitely not secure.   This damn registry thing is going to be an ongoing war.  I will demand to my MP that these provincial CFOs or even store owners that are collecting personal information are now breaking federal law should be swiftly convicted.
We have a greed with which we have agreed...
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AxeMan

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2012, 05:57:44 PM »
Justin, who is telling you that you have to document personal information when you sell a gun?  What procedures are you to follow when you sell a new gun?  Explain the paper trail to us.
We have a greed with which we have agreed...
Society, you're a crazy breed.
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Paul

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 10:38:46 AM »
Well the RCMP has spoken, if it doesn't stop perhaps some arrests and firings?

OTTAWA - The commissioner of the RCMP has ordered all chief firearms officers across Canada to put an end to backdoor long-gun registries set up after the federal registry was abolished in April.

"I instruct all chief firearms officers to ensure that the licensing conditions you impose on business records pursuant to the Firearms Act do not facilitate the creation of long-gun registries in your jurisdictions," Bob Paulson wrote in his letter.

Chief firearms officers (CFOs) in Ontario and those elsewhere have demanded gun shops use paper ledgers to record much of the same information that was once collected in the now abolished federal registry, including the serial number, make, and model of any unrestricted firearms sold.

Paulson says that violates the spirit of the law that abolished the federal registry.

His order comes in response to a letter from the public safety minister earlier this week that "reiterated that under no circumstances should any provision of the Firearms Act or related regulations be interpreted or construed as permitting or requiring licensing conditions that could create some semblance of a long-gun registry."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/05/20120511-101130.html

ponyboy

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 12:45:26 PM »
I am a little afraid to post because I don't want to be jumped all over but I have a question since I don't really understand this whole thing.
What exactly is the big deal about a gun being registered to a person who bought it. Is it better that a person can walk in to a store, buy a gun and walk out? If there is no criminal intent with purchasing a gun in the first place, what is the big deal?
You are buying a weapon with which life can be taken, why do you not want the responsibility of having it attached to your name? You register a car, a child, a mortgage, pretty much everything. I just don't get what the big deal is. If you wish to have the responsibility to own a firearm legally, then I don't see why it matters that it has your name on it.

MHO

Paul

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 02:35:39 PM »
Is it better that a person can walk in to a store, buy a gun and walk out? If there is no criminal intent with purchasing a gun in the first place, what is the big deal?

The big deal is if you give an inch, you will lose a mile, Governments have proven that time and time again, just look at the history of the world. For me it's not so much registering a hunting rifle for which I have no intent of using criminally, it's the big picture. If I am an honest, law abiding citizen, why shouldn't I have the benefit of the doubt? The fact they gave me a PAL says that I am a responsible law abiding person, so as far as I'm concerned it satisfies the need to not enact more control on me.

Furthermore having to register leaves to door open for certain abuses by the RCMP, who have proven time and time again how useless and bureaucratically corrupt they are, especially over the past 10 years. I can speak personally on 2 occasions where their authority was abused because of the system and in neither instance was it warranted.

walleyes

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 06:51:25 PM »
Well said Paul.                           
The big deal is ponyboy,, its none of their damn business what I own. As far as your comment on the fact its a weapon that can kill someone,, like really you don't want to rethink that one a bit ?? How bout you register your bow,, how bout you register your skinning knife like come on there Rosie Odonell,, a gun is not a weapon that kills people, people are weapons that kill people. I am surprised we even have to have this conversation on a site like this!!


nube

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 07:19:25 PM »
I was thinking the same thing Walleyes.  I didn't know if he was trying to be silly or was serious with his question.  Sorry if your serious and you can't answer that one yourself Ponyboy.  I myself pay the money and jump through the hoops to get a license to prove I am a good guy.  I don't need to add to the hassle and get my guns registered as well.  Got a few other reasons why as well in my head but not worth the time to spit them out right now. 

rightwing

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2012, 07:25:14 PM »
I am a little afraid to post because I don't want to be jumped all over but I have a question since I don't really understand this whole thing.
What exactly is the big deal about a gun being registered to a person who bought it. Is it better that a person can walk in to a store, buy a gun and walk out? If there is no criminal intent with purchasing a gun in the first place, what is the big deal?
You are buying a weapon with which life can be taken, why do you not want the responsibility of having it attached to your name? You register a car, a child, a mortgage, pretty much everything. I just don't get what the big deal is. If you wish to have the responsibility to own a firearm legally, then I don't see why it matters that it has your name on it.

MHO

Because a lot of people, or at least I believe that registration is the first step in order to confiscate all our guns. Considering the brain child behind the registry Allan Rock said that no one but the police and military should have guns. Do you get it Ponytaill!
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 07:26:45 PM by rightwing »

Cowtown guy

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2012, 12:54:02 AM »
I am a little afraid to post because I don't want to be jumped all over but I have a question since I don't really understand this whole thing.
What exactly is the big deal about a gun being registered to a person who bought it. Is it better that a person can walk in to a store, buy a gun and walk out? If there is no criminal intent with purchasing a gun in the first place, what is the big deal?
You are buying a weapon with which life can be taken, why do you not want the responsibility of having it attached to your name? You register a car, a child, a mortgage, pretty much everything. I just don't get what the big deal is. If you wish to have the responsibility to own a firearm legally, then I don't see why it matters that it has your name on it.

MHO

How about baseball bats, kitchen knives and garden tools?  The person is the one taking the life.  The weapon is a tool.  Better not give your kid a pencil for school.  Could stab someone with it.

While we are at it, why do we register cars?  Tax grab is all.  Not because it can kill someone.

Seriously though, dedicate some time and download the firearms act and you can see the ridiculousness of this whole ordeal.  Just make sure you have some time set aside for some heavy reading.

Every small step that has been taken over the last few years that most see as not a big deal, is culminating in more and more control by the government to do what they want with MY GUNS.  The lefties want all guns gone.  PERIOD!  That is their agenda.  They will continue to push for this as long as people don't see these small issues as a big deal.
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ponyboy

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Re: Gun registry stupidness
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2012, 06:15:13 PM »
Thanks, I asked because I do not know what its all about. I fish and shoot a bow, not guns. While I agree with how some of you feel its your right, I also feel safer knowing that someone knows who bought a gun. I'm sure there is a better way for it to be done, but I don't think that firearms should be a free for all cuz you are just below crazy enough to qualify for your PAL.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, just as you have a right to move to a place where you are told what you are allowed to eat.