This might be my trophy for the Year

[Paul]

Cheating at hunting is like cheating at golf, you're only cheating yourself 

I can't count the times I have let some ridiculous deer walk away because it wasn't right.

- 200" net buck I saw at Salt Prairie 5 years ago, in a guys alfalfa field, 2:30 in the aft, and I knew the guy was at work, he only lets bow hunters on.

- 190" ish net on the Christy Creek road in an oat stubble field rounding up does at 200 yards, Wednesday morning, no one around, everyone at work, no permission.

- 190+ 6x6 in a cutblock, in the middle of ****ing nowhere, not a soul for 10 miles, 10 minutes after legal

- 180" ish at High Prairie last year, 45 yards off the road, standing there for what seemed like an eternity, 15 minutes before legal.

- 170 ish with a big drop tine at the South Mitsue 2 lane divide down that short road where you can see the log stockpile with the sign that says "no shooting" at 1 in the afternoon.

I have heard guys talk about "the guys that shoot the 170+ year after year after year bend the rules a bit sometimes". I have been chasing whitetails for 22 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out. But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year.... I know a guy from High Prairie that has a basement full of ridiculous deer, he had no qualms with trespassing or extending legal time. But they eventually caught up to him, shot a moose where he didn't have permission, from the road, while the poor guy who was sitting in a treestand on the edge of that field had his hunt ruined. Anyway just saying...

[ishootbambi]

paul....you said....

But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year.... 

thats the kind of thing successful trophy hunters hear a lot of.  i dont doubt for a second there are some out there that do cheat to get it done.  when i was younger and didnt have the heads i do, i believed some of the rumors i heard.  it seemed there were a couple of guys who seemed to have more "luck"  than everyone else, and i bought into the jealousy.  as i got older, i started grilling a couple of them to see what they would tell me.  turns out that one in particular was willing to teach me what he knew.  he told me where he hunts and how to find the biggest bucks.  he told me how much time he spends chasing deer in november and how hard he works doing it. 

rather than hating him for his success, i thought it was better to emulate him.  i gleaned all i could from him, and next thing ya know, i killed a few good bucks.  as i learned the details of what makes deer do what they do, i became pretty consistent at it.  that guy helped me, and for those wanting to learn, ive done my best to help them.  there are a couple guys on this forum that have been given some of the best advice i have.  it would make me smile something fierce to see those guys score on a giant using any of the tips ive shared. 

i dont know if you read about my hunt last year paul, but i passed a 175ish whitetail a couple times as i really had my heart set on a buck that was well over 200.  i cant even guess how much over, but he was for sure bigger than the 210 i have at home.  twice i had the giant under 100 yards...but both times after legal light.  i dont care what anyone hears....i can guarantee you that not all guys who regularly kill oversized animals are doing it on the shady side. 

[sheepguide]

I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.

Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG

[MountainTi]

I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG

That doesn't help matters even a little bit, as most posts the arrogance  really shines thru, whether intentional or not.

[Dark]

"I have been chasing whitetails for 30 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out"

x2

[Paul]

I think the key is first of all living in a good hunting area with very little pressure, say if you were a landowner that had sections of prime land tied up excusively my family is from Lac La Biche area and I have permission on 4 or so sections of good deer hunting land, although some is not exclusive I have cousins that hunt it. The second key is finding a 170 plus buck, although alot of them are nocturnal, even in the rut, but if you know it's there you can pursue that specific deer. I think a lot of big deer are shot by chance, often the hunter has said 'I never saw that buck before". Then the third key is being able to hunt sunrise to sunset everyday that an area is open (most of my biggest deer were taken between 10am and 2pm btw). I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I can't hunt that much without losing my business, or my wife, or both, although I never worked Novembers when I was single. So for the 10 or so days I do get out I have to do my best. So in roughly the 20 years I have been chasing deer I have seen maybe 7 or 8 bucks that would top 170, and one that would have gone 200 net. Had I taken some liberties I could probably have taken 5 of them, including that 200 incher.

Now I take my moms place for example. Here is prime deer property, nice alfalfa, good cover on thick second growth forest, but you can't walk in it and hunt effectively because its small and dense. There are loads of deer on it but I don't enjoy hunting it much. Sure I can sit in the field and watch all the does come out (seen as many as 60) but the bucks just don't venture out in the light. The only big bucks I have ever seen there are pulling in at night they are on the driveway and in the yard rubbing my moms trees. Now my step dad is out there everyday, working, putzing around and he tells me about big deer, but it's always "when we pulled in at night". So they exist, my cousin shot a 190 across the road 3 years ago, just tough to hunt. I may ask him to clear a swath of trees this year for a place to sit in the bush.

I will say I have passed up 160 class bucks and ended up not tagging anything, but that was in special cirumstances where I saw a very unique buck in the area with antlers that looked like a caribou, but very little mass, was very odd wouldn't even fathom a guess on what it would have scored, had a very brief look at it, but it was something special.

Now I am not saying or accusing anyone of anything, maybe other people have figured out things that many don't know. I am just speaking about my experience.

Anyway my 2 cents.

[nube]

Well I guess after reading this I am a poacher! 
Paul if you can't kill them in the field then hunt them in the bush.
If your driving around and seeing big deer and can't kill them because you don't have permission then stop driving around and go hunting. 
Instead of complaining your not killing deer figure out why your not and learn from what your doing wrong. 
First it takes time. 
Pass up the small ones.  Most guys shoot the first decent buck they see and then complain they never shoot a 170" buck.
Get permission or hunt crown land where when you do see the buck you can kill it.  If your not going to bend the rules then why drive around where you can't shoot them.  You might as well take a camera.
I prefer to hunt crown land myself and roadhunt.  When I see a deer I want to shoot I don't have to worry about who owns it.  When I was guiding I had a book of phonenumbers of farmers that had piles of land.  I could roadhunt all day driving from one chunk to the next if I wanted. 
People ask me all the time how I kill sheep so easily.  It is the same as anything else.  Put in the time.  Learn from your mistakes.  Hunt where you will have a chance to kill what you are after and pay attention to every little detail of everything of that animal you are after.  An remember those details from past years.  Things don't change much from year to year.  Once you figure them out it is not that hard.   

[Elkaholic6]

Cheating at hunting is like cheating at golf, you're only cheating yourself 

I can't count the times I have let some ridiculous deer walk away because it wasn't right.

- 200" net buck I saw at Salt Prairie 5 years ago, in a guys alfalfa field, 2:30 in the aft, and I knew the guy was at work, he only lets bow hunters on.

- 190" ish net on the Christy Creek road in an oat stubble field rounding up does at 200 yards, Wednesday morning, no one around, everyone at work, no permission.

- 190+ 6x6 in a cutblock, in the middle of ****ing nowhere, not a soul for 10 miles, 10 minutes after legal

- 180" ish at High Prairie last year, 45 yards off the road, standing there for what seemed like an eternity, 15 minutes before legal.

- 170 ish with a big drop tine at the South Mitsue 2 lane divide down that short road where you can see the log stockpile with the sign that says "no shooting" at 1 in the afternoon.

I have heard guys talk about "the guys that shoot the 170+ year after year after year bend the rules a bit sometimes". I have been chasing whitetails for 22 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out. But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year.... I know a guy from High Prairie that has a basement full of ridiculous deer, he had no qualms with trespassing or extending legal time. But they eventually caught up to him, shot a moose where he didn't have permission, from the road, while the poor guy who was sitting in a treestand on the edge of that field had his hunt ruined. Anyway just saying...

It's all about how much time you put in. My buddy shot a 228" whitey last year, and a 198" or something the year before, and the amount of time he put in to those deer is ridiculous. If you put in the time to kill a giant, you're gonna do it. I put in lots of pre-season into the buck I'm after, but I haven't been out in the field nearly enough to kill him. I had pics only of him at night, then when hunting season started I got day time pics of him and thought to myself, I'm gonna hunt him everyday. But I've never got around to putting enough stand time in yet and it's showing. I could of had him down in October IF I put the amount of effort into him as I wanted.

[nube]

It's all about how much time you put in. My buddy shot a 228" whitey last year, and a 198" or something the year before, and the amount of time he put in to those deer is ridiculous. If you put in the time to kill a giant, you're gonna do it. I put in lots of pre-season into the buck I'm after, but I haven't been out in the field nearly enough to kill him. I had pics only of him at night, then when hunting season started I got day time pics of him and thought to myself, I'm gonna hunt him everyday. But I've never got around to putting enough stand time in yet and it's showing. I could of had him down in October IF I put the amount of effort into him as I wanted.

Time is the #1 thing you need and then figuring them out and where to hunt them is another important thing.  Other than that it is a lot of luck and if you are on your toes ready for that split second of chance you will be successfull or at least can say you did your best in the end.  I usually see 1-2 170+ bucks in most years and if I am  ready for those few times and shoot straight I will have my buck.  Some years it just doesn't happen. 

[Paul]

That's the thing Nube, I'm not a roadhunter, but I have seen some very big deer while traveling, as I am sure most of us have. I haven't shot anything in 4 years because I am getting fussier in my old age. I also agree that it takes time to get a big deer, and I have less time these days due to other commitments.

[nube]

I am sure that when you get your 170" buck it will feel a lot better than shooting a coupel of them from roadhunting.  Kind of like sitting on the mine and shooting a ram versus going and buring off a couple soles off your boots hiking and hunting hard.
Obviously you don't have a problem finding them Paul.  Maybe you just need to try and figure out better how to get in and kill them?  Maybe you just have real bad luck?  I have buddies of mine that see way more bigger deer than me every year it seems but for soem reason they can't kill them.  Who knows what it is sometimes.  Hopefully this year you get him

[ishootbambi]

I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.

Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG

210, 182, 176, 176.  only the biggets nets B&C at 202 5/8.  there are several more in the high 60s. 

some guys are going to take any posting of any picture as bragging.  kyles ram is the best example.  the things ive heard said about him are just unreal.  i was there at pincher creek, and that kid has waaaaay more patience than i do.  if i were him and put up with what he did, i guarantee someone would have been spitting chiclets.  the whole point of these forums is a place to share pictures and stories surrounding outdoor pursuits.  i look at these as a big, real time magazine.  at first i thought most others felt the same, but on the other one in particular, it seems that a lot use these as a way of finding pretend friends as they must have very few in real life.

i could give a schit who does or doesnt like the pics i put up.  i could give a schit who does or doesnt believe it.  im sure you remember when a certain loudmouth hillbilly hollered and whined that im a roadhunting poacher because i wear jeans instead of camo.  im used to that kind of jealousy by now.  10 years ago it bothered me, but ive learned that some just have to whine as its much easier than accepting that someone else has had more success than you at something.  if it sounds like bragging when i show those pics and tell the stories......meh.  if the pics arent enough to back up what i have to say, then that sounds like a problem on the other end.  ive always thought it aint bragging if its true.  go ahead and hate me for that now.

like i said, there are a few who have asked me how i do it, and what tips and techniques work.  ive given them the very best advice i can.  im guessing you have seen how many times someone has taken an animal and offered a thank you to me for helping.  ill always do that  and wish the best of luck to others.  to those who cant do anything but whine as the jealousy drives them....i really do feel sorry for you.

nube really summed it up well.  i know he gets a lot of abuse like this too, and even stopped posting pics at the other forum because of it.  he has also offered up some very good advice in this thread.  for those wanting to improve their success, it may be wise to take some of that knowledge and put it to good use.

i sincerely wish everyone here the best of luck in the next couple of weeks.  things are just heating up where i am right now.  yesterday robin had a good solid 180s mule on the go, but we just couldnt get there in time.  when the clock struck at the end of the day, we were still just over 400 yards from him.  today, eric missed a 160 kinda whitetail at first light, and on the way from the river back to camp we saw an easy 180 whitey in the dark.  he will be job one in the morning.

[Paul]

I agree sometimes you have to go get them. The biggest deer I ever shot 168 was at 1 in the afternoon, on a pine mossy area I walked into in a fairly well hunted area, I doubt anyone ever walked into it before as it doesn't look like good deer area. In the middle of it all was a small poplar ridge, I rattled for all of 10 seconds and he was on a full run to me, I assume I wlked right into his bedding area. On the way out I ran into a well known outfitter in the area who was driving around with his spotting scope, I won't say who but let's just say he share the same name with a famous clown who sells hamburgers, Walleyes probably knows who I am talking about. Anyway he informed me he had never ever seen that deer, even though him and his family own several quarters around that mossy area, and all he does constantly is look for big bucks starting in August.

Anyway at the end of the day, whether I break 170 or not, I have countless fond memories of time shared with best friends. We have had many laughs, some triumphs and certainly some heartbreak. I have learned many things about myself and life in general. And for that, I wouldn't trade anything.

[sheepguide]

I agree sometimes you have to go get them. The biggest deer I ever shot 168 was at 1 in the afternoon, on a pine mossy area I walked into in a fairly well hunted area, I doubt anyone ever walked into it before as it doesn't look like good deer area. In the middle of it all was a small poplar ridge, I rattled for all of 10 seconds and he was on a full run to me, I assume I wlked right into his bedding area. On the way out I ran into a well known outfitter in the area who was driving around with his spotting scope, I won't say who but let's just say he share the same name with a famous clown who sells hamburgers, Walleyes probably knows who I am talking about. Anyway he informed me he had never ever seen that deer, even though him and his family own several quarters around that mossy area, and all he does constantly is look for big bucks starting in August.

Anyway at the end of the day, whether I break 170 or not, I have countless fond memories of time shared with best friends. We have had many laughs, some triumphs and certainly some heartbreak. I have learned many things about myself and life in general. And for that, I wouldn't trade anything.

Best comment in the thread. To many guys judge their own and others success by what they harvest and the size of that harvest. I got alot of harassment for not holding out for a buck bigger than my wifes this year but that buck I shot means way more to me than if I would have shot a 200" Typical by myself as i had the family with me and we were spending time on a track of land we love to hunt.. I guess im not a true trophy hunter or any good at it as I personaly havent shot any true hogs. I have 1 that grosses over 170, 4 or 5 over 160 and a few over 150 and have been 100% on a buck every year since I started to hunt, but many of the smaller deer mean the most due to the hunt that took place to get them. I honestly hope I never get to the point as many have to over look that the trophy is just a bonus and not what makes a good hunter or a successful hunt. Scores have a tendancy to blind many guys from seeing the rest of the picture. I have two bighorn rams on the wall and the hunt I remember most was when myself, MountainTi and my two boys went sheep hunting. Nothing was shot but I was as happy as if there was a 190" bighorn on the ground.
A good friend of mine told me last fall that he forgot the feeling of harvesting a buck and the joys of it as he has a 200" deer from years past and has been not pulling the trigger for a lot of years trying to top it. Last year he shot a 150" deer and got to feel that excitment again. The push to kill that buck bigger than the last made him lose a little from hunting. The hunt wasnt good enough unless that monster hit the dirt.

Bambi im glad your as successful as you say but like I said alot of time there are other factors that get rumors starting about people. If there are a few guys talking then lots of times its jealousy but if there are a bunch of people talking usually there is a reason. You know the truth and thats all that matters.

SG

[nube]

I agree with a lot you said sheepguide but for me score does matter both personally and for others.  If I meet a guy that has 3 or 4 rams or 4 or 5 big whitetails I know what it takes to get there and that he knows what he is doing.  I can respect that and his acomplishments.  It's not a thing where I am better or he is better kind of thing but we understand and know what it takes to get that kind of success.  You know you are talking to a guy that knows the animal and pays attention to the small details. 

On the other hand I do not look down at any meat hunter or anyone who is proud of their success if it is a small animal. 

[Paul]

Nube, I can agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. I agree that taking a trophy requires perseverance, but it also requires time, and a lot of guys just can't get the time to pull it off. So it doesn't necessarily "make the man". If I had 30 days to hunt in November that  would probably increase my odds, the fact is I don't, as do a lot of guys.

[nube]

Read the last line I posted in my last post Paul.  I know it does not make the man to take a big animal and as I stated I don't look down on anyone that is happy with what he has.  I think this is a sensitive topic for many.  I don't want to piss anyone off here so I think maybe I am done for now talking about it.  Some guys have a hard time discussing this kind of stuff.  I am glad it has stayed pretty civil so far here and I do appolagize if I have said too much or have been misunderstood.     Hopefully in a couple weeks when the season is done we are all happy with our year.  I have been out a few times now and I will say that I think my season is going to end with a tag in my pocket or a small rat buck.  All I see is tons of small 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer with the odd 145-150.  That whole upper class of bucks in the area I hunt has been wiped out and I think if I do catch a big boy this year or next it will be a lot of luck big time.  Going for 8 or 9 days next week and hopefully have some fun  Trying to get 2 buddies a decent deer this year is going to be my goal.  So far they have not had a lot of luck in much over 150".

[sheepguide]

So tell me this Nube... if a guy in 20 years kills a 150" - 160"deer every other year and the next guy kills 2 or 3 - 175" - 180" net typical whitetails and and just a few smaller bucks over the same years. Who is a better hunter? Which hunter knows deer better? Them scores dont tell you a thing about how well a guy reads deer, how good he is at reading details or how good of a hunter he is! Each hunter could know deer the exactly the same and be just as smart at hunting them but just have different ideas on what to pull the trigger on. One may have permission on a private track of land that has great deer populations one could hunt only public forstry lots of variables dtermin things.

Just like rams, I have 2 small ones. Does that make me less of a hunter than a guy that has a 180" ram or 4 rams? I have a budy that has hunted sheep for three years. He shot his first ram his first year on opening day in the bush as it walked across the horse trail. The second was a late season Cadomin draw. His first is 176 and his second is 191. By your way of thinking looking at what he has acomplished he is a very skillfull dedicated sheep hunter. Ask him and he will say he has a ton of luck used up. The only way to judge a guys ability and skill is to actually set foot in the woods with him not by what he has on the wall.

Like I said to many guys put score as a way to judge a hunt or hunters.

SG

[nube]

the guy with a 160" buck every year beats a lucky 2 big deer for me.

[Paul]

I am certainly not offended by anything that has been said here, I think this is a meaningful and relevant discussion.