Alberta Sportsman Fishing and Hunting Forum
Alberta Sportsman and Outdoors Fishing or Hunting Discussion => Back at Camp => Topic started by: Decker on October 20, 2011, 10:34:22 AM
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I found this while out on Opening week. There was a Grizzly not too far from where I found this.
[attachment deleted 180 days old]
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Cool find Decker.. So was there any remaining evidence it may have been a grizzly kill or just death from old age. Either way a cool find.
Thx for sharing..
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Very nice! If you are in the hummingbird or canary creek areas, you are never two far from a grizzly. I saw 6 there in one day. Another time I ran into the wardens packing out of the ram. They said they had seen NINE grizz on the trail out.
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Cool find Decker.. So was there any remaining evidence it may have been a grizzly kill or just death from old age. Either way a cool find.
Thx for sharing..
I'd say that one definately didn't die of old age. I have him at 7.5, maybe 8.5 tops. And yep, always lots of g-bears out there, last week we saw two different bears in four days, without really looking for them. Two years ago we were hunting out there and we saw/knew of eight different bears within 4/5 miles of our camp. Cool find Decker.
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Nice find Decker
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Thanks, he is only 7 1/2 so dieing of old age is out. I seen the skelton remains first and knew there should be a head around somewhere and sure enough. The game warden figured he was shot last fall and someone got nervous as he was just legal. If he would have been able to grow older he would have been a nice trophy as he already had good size bases and pretty big loop for horn.
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Being shot and left,, that would be about the worst scenario of all wouldn't it. A bear well,, he's just doing what he does. But a human well,, what can be said..
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That's a big assumption for a warden to make just by looking at the skull. Awesome find though. Sheep die of many things before they are really old so who knows....go with the bear kill story - at least he probably ate a chunk of him. Cougars probably kill more sheep than bears. Hopefully the warden is wrong, either way, its all speculation unless there was evidence to the exact nature of the death.
Thanks, he is only 7 1/2 so dieing of old age is out. I seen the skelton remains first and knew there should be a head around somewhere and sure enough. The game warden figured he was shot last fall and someone got nervous as he was just legal. If he would have been able to grow older he would have been a nice trophy as he already had good size bases and pretty big loop for horn.
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Yes, could easily have been a cougar kill. First cougar I saw in the wild was at the head of canary, well above tree line. Wonder what it was doing up there eh!
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Nice find Decker
X 2
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I would say it got shot and the hunter thought it was too close to take a chance on it.
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Nice find bud. I know some guys that saw a cougar last winter on a ram kill in that same area. Ill see if I can find out where they saw it.
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id be nervous asking for a permit for it. i know you have nothing to do with it decker, but there is a fish cop where i live that would be sporting wood if he thought he could charge me with something for a head like that. heck, he got big eyes when he saw my ram in hinton a few years back and wanted me to bring it home for him to analyze. no thanks fella....he was plugged in hinton.
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Not sure why he would be nervous. He found it! Even if it was taken illegally they can't charge you unless they have proof of you being a part of it. Obviously the thing has been sitting thre for some time. I'd take it in with no problem.
Why would the fish cop get excited about your ram Dale?
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like i said....the thought of being able to stick something on me gives him a full on rager. he has made it no secret for a few years now that he would love to be the one to nail me. youve seen the bucks i kill.....deer like that dont grow around medicine hat. i told you in pm wher i am, but there is always some jealous fool thinking he knows something. every year the rumor mill churns out something along the lines of "dale shot a big buck with a rifle in bow season, or dale shot a big buck in the city limits, or dale was in cypress hills at night".
no word of a lie, i used to be the scoring and awards chair for the med hat F&G club. a few years ago when i shot my 210 whitetail, i was hanging category winner ribbons on the heads on the display board and a guy tapped me on the shoulder and said "you arent going to allow that poacher to win are you? my buddy has him on video shooting that buck in the city limits." i looked right back at him and pointed to the fish cop booth 70 feet away and told him that if he goes and tells them that i would pull it. i even offered him 100 bucks to see the video, and he quickly told me that hois buddy doesnt want to get involved because that asshole dale is a big tough bugger who would kill him. i laughed pretty good at it as the poor clown had no clue who he was talking to.
anyway, mr fish cop was in hinton for some sort of course at the training center and saw my ram and asked how i felt about it. i said what are you talking about....he is legal by two inches at least. he said i should bring it home to medicine hat so he could register it for me, but like i said, i wanted someone who has a clue doing it.
youve seen this before, but here he is in the office in hinton.
(http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m581/isb11/ramsquare.jpg)
pretty squeaky huh? :o
i wont get into the details yet as its still open, but there is another story going on right now. its completely bogus, but as long as its open id best not discuss it publicly. just another example of a wild goose chase trying so hard to paint me as something i aint. jealousy does that to people. oh well, i work hard at earning trophies and some guys just hate me for being successful. there are a few guys around here who get similar treatment. you too phil....why do you think WJ is all over you about your trail cam pics.
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Sounds like a personal issue between you and a fish cop Dale, doest reflect anything on why Decker should be nervous about registering the ram he shot. I know of probably 30 sheep heads that have been found and registered from 201" to half curls and not one of them was questioned. They cant just say oh you brought a head in so you must have killed it. The have to produce a case and in situation they wouldnt even bat an eye and registering it. Take it in to Rocky and there will be no issues im sure.
And to touch on you friend the fish cop Dale,
Funny thing about fish cop tails such as yours is that there is usually a reason they target guys,
1. Because the do actually poach and the just havent caugth them yet
2. The guy targeted has pissed others off by bragging
3. The hunter beat the fish cops on another charge
4. The hunter has been stepping on others toes out in the field so guys get mad and try and get the guy in trouble.
5. Stems from a personal issue unrelated to hunting.
There are alot of guys that have outstanding results hunting big animals and have no issues with fish cops, im not saying that you have done anything to deserve the Fish Cops attention but down the road somewhere something was probably said or done to someone that got the ball rolling that has made you a target now and im pretty sure its more than just harvest a couple big deer because. But hey thats just my thoughts for what there worth.
SG
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I hear what your saying Dale but In Deckers case he has nothing to worry about.
Yes some guys kill big critters. I think the reason why a lot of the times is because of time hunted and knowing what the heck the hunter is doing. Also to keep off the trigger when you find a decent critter to get a real big one. How many guys will shoot the first 150" deer they see? Most of them is what I think. You can't kill 170" deer if your shooting the ones that are smaller!
WTJ can blow me as well. Yup I get pictures of big deer on camera. Why would I come home with a 166" deer like last year when I have bigger on camera I could have killed ::)
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darcy, i agree that decker should have nothing to worry about. usually its big stuff that raises eyebrows. there is no reason that the former world record non typ elk found in the lake in bc should have been confiscated....or remember the trucker who ran over the giant ram at exshaw a decade ago? never held a hunting license in his life and when he killed that ram with a tire iron he was charged. thnk there is any chance it would have been charges if that had been a whitetail doe instead of a top ten ram?
as for my little buddy....you hit 2 1/2 of 5.
phil, i know you understand what im saying as you are in the same boat. success breeds jealousy which breeds stories and rumors. i think most fish cops are pretty good guys and can weed out the bullschit.
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Not sure the circumstances behind the elk bambi but I do know that the rules in BC as far as keeping found dead wildlife is allot different than what we have here. I was told you must take it in and they put a price on the horns or antlers then you either pay that or they are taken and sold. Not sure if thats 100% correct but there has been lots of thread about this on hunting BC(maybe do a search) and I would bet could possible behind why the bull was taken.
Second the ram in question was killed by the guy. I dont know if the charges stuck but ive heard many different versions about the tire iron incident so it can go either way. As the law reads he did wrong. Moraly he did right but legally he broke the law.
Both allot different than picking up a head in Alberta!
As for me getting 2 1/2 out of 5 of my reasons right explains why you have the issues you do. Doesnt always stem from you being such an awesome hunter and people are just jelouse. Most of the time guys bring a certain amout of that negativity upon themselves.
SG
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i have no idea what bc's rules are on found deads. i never found anything i wanted to keep when i lived there.
the trucker that killed the sheep....yep, according to the law he wasnt by the book. but then again, do you think the charges would have even been filed if it was a whitetail doe?
as for the 2 1/2.....1 and 3 are out. ive posted pics here and won a pile of categories in the local F&G club. some guys just hate that i have consistent success. ive posted pics on a couple of hunting forums. i thought thats what these are all about.....but some consider it bragging alright.
not sure i exactly stepped on anyones toes, but a guy got pretty sour when i helped my 14 year old cousin get a 182 mule buck several years ago. i didnt know he was eevn after it, and i didnt know it was there. i just took the kid to a place i knew of....and in fact showed this guy. it was MY area first. the kid shot the buck, and the guy told the fish cops and the grazing lease manager that i chased the thing down with a snowmobile and killed it. i didnt even shoot it...the kid did. he was that mad that he created a story....and the worst part is.....i was the best man in his wedding. thats some ugly jealousy right there. i hnestly didnt know about the buck, or that the guy was hunting it, but he figured i pulled the rug out from him.
the half is a personal issue alright. it originated regarding hunting issues, and turned personal. whatever....hunt me all you want. the truth is i have nothing to hide, so by all means look at me all you want. remember last year when i told the story of a buck well over 200 inches that i didnt shoot twice just after legal light? that was true. ive always said that if you had to cheat to win, then you didnt really win.
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Cheating at hunting is like cheating at golf, you're only cheating yourself ;D
I can't count the times I have let some ridiculous deer walk away because it wasn't right.
- 200" net buck I saw at Salt Prairie 5 years ago, in a guys alfalfa field, 2:30 in the aft, and I knew the guy was at work, he only lets bow hunters on.
- 190" ish net on the Christy Creek road in an oat stubble field rounding up does at 200 yards, Wednesday morning, no one around, everyone at work, no permission.
- 190+ 6x6 in a cutblock, in the middle of ****ing nowhere, not a soul for 10 miles, 10 minutes after legal
- 180" ish at High Prairie last year, 45 yards off the road, standing there for what seemed like an eternity, 15 minutes before legal.
- 170 ish with a big drop tine at the South Mitsue 2 lane divide down that short road where you can see the log stockpile with the sign that says "no shooting" at 1 in the afternoon.
I have heard guys talk about "the guys that shoot the 170+ year after year after year bend the rules a bit sometimes". I have been chasing whitetails for 22 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out. But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year.... ::) I know a guy from High Prairie that has a basement full of ridiculous deer, he had no qualms with trespassing or extending legal time. But they eventually caught up to him, shot a moose where he didn't have permission, from the road, while the poor guy who was sitting in a treestand on the edge of that field had his hunt ruined. Anyway just saying...
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paul....you said....
But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year....
thats the kind of thing successful trophy hunters hear a lot of. i dont doubt for a second there are some out there that do cheat to get it done. when i was younger and didnt have the heads i do, i believed some of the rumors i heard. it seemed there were a couple of guys who seemed to have more "luck" than everyone else, and i bought into the jealousy. as i got older, i started grilling a couple of them to see what they would tell me. turns out that one in particular was willing to teach me what he knew. he told me where he hunts and how to find the biggest bucks. he told me how much time he spends chasing deer in november and how hard he works doing it.
rather than hating him for his success, i thought it was better to emulate him. i gleaned all i could from him, and next thing ya know, i killed a few good bucks. as i learned the details of what makes deer do what they do, i became pretty consistent at it. that guy helped me, and for those wanting to learn, ive done my best to help them. there are a couple guys on this forum that have been given some of the best advice i have. it would make me smile something fierce to see those guys score on a giant using any of the tips ive shared.
i dont know if you read about my hunt last year paul, but i passed a 175ish whitetail a couple times as i really had my heart set on a buck that was well over 200. i cant even guess how much over, but he was for sure bigger than the 210 i have at home. twice i had the giant under 100 yards...but both times after legal light. i dont care what anyone hears....i can guarantee you that not all guys who regularly kill oversized animals are doing it on the shady side.
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I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.
Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG
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I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG
That doesn't help matters even a little bit, as most posts the arrogance really shines thru, whether intentional or not.
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"I have been chasing whitetails for 30 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out"
x2
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I think the key is first of all living in a good hunting area with very little pressure, say if you were a landowner that had sections of prime land tied up excusively my family is from Lac La Biche area and I have permission on 4 or so sections of good deer hunting land, although some is not exclusive I have cousins that hunt it. The second key is finding a 170 plus buck, although alot of them are nocturnal, even in the rut, but if you know it's there you can pursue that specific deer. I think a lot of big deer are shot by chance, often the hunter has said 'I never saw that buck before". Then the third key is being able to hunt sunrise to sunset everyday that an area is open (most of my biggest deer were taken between 10am and 2pm btw). I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I can't hunt that much without losing my business, or my wife, or both, although I never worked Novembers when I was single. So for the 10 or so days I do get out I have to do my best. So in roughly the 20 years I have been chasing deer I have seen maybe 7 or 8 bucks that would top 170, and one that would have gone 200 net. Had I taken some liberties I could probably have taken 5 of them, including that 200 incher.
Now I take my moms place for example. Here is prime deer property, nice alfalfa, good cover on thick second growth forest, but you can't walk in it and hunt effectively because its small and dense. There are loads of deer on it but I don't enjoy hunting it much. Sure I can sit in the field and watch all the does come out (seen as many as 60) but the bucks just don't venture out in the light. The only big bucks I have ever seen there are pulling in at night they are on the driveway and in the yard rubbing my moms trees. Now my step dad is out there everyday, working, putzing around and he tells me about big deer, but it's always "when we pulled in at night". So they exist, my cousin shot a 190 across the road 3 years ago, just tough to hunt. I may ask him to clear a swath of trees this year for a place to sit in the bush.
I will say I have passed up 160 class bucks and ended up not tagging anything, but that was in special cirumstances where I saw a very unique buck in the area with antlers that looked like a caribou, but very little mass, was very odd wouldn't even fathom a guess on what it would have scored, had a very brief look at it, but it was something special.
Now I am not saying or accusing anyone of anything, maybe other people have figured out things that many don't know. I am just speaking about my experience.
Anyway my 2 cents.
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Well I guess after reading this I am a poacher!
Paul if you can't kill them in the field then hunt them in the bush.
If your driving around and seeing big deer and can't kill them because you don't have permission then stop driving around and go hunting.
Instead of complaining your not killing deer figure out why your not and learn from what your doing wrong.
First it takes time.
Pass up the small ones. Most guys shoot the first decent buck they see and then complain they never shoot a 170" buck.
Get permission or hunt crown land where when you do see the buck you can kill it. If your not going to bend the rules then why drive around where you can't shoot them. You might as well take a camera.
I prefer to hunt crown land myself and roadhunt. When I see a deer I want to shoot I don't have to worry about who owns it. When I was guiding I had a book of phonenumbers of farmers that had piles of land. I could roadhunt all day driving from one chunk to the next if I wanted.
People ask me all the time how I kill sheep so easily. It is the same as anything else. Put in the time. Learn from your mistakes. Hunt where you will have a chance to kill what you are after and pay attention to every little detail of everything of that animal you are after. An remember those details from past years. Things don't change much from year to year. Once you figure them out it is not that hard. ;)
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Cheating at hunting is like cheating at golf, you're only cheating yourself ;D
I can't count the times I have let some ridiculous deer walk away because it wasn't right.
- 200" net buck I saw at Salt Prairie 5 years ago, in a guys alfalfa field, 2:30 in the aft, and I knew the guy was at work, he only lets bow hunters on.
- 190" ish net on the Christy Creek road in an oat stubble field rounding up does at 200 yards, Wednesday morning, no one around, everyone at work, no permission.
- 190+ 6x6 in a cutblock, in the middle of ****ing nowhere, not a soul for 10 miles, 10 minutes after legal
- 180" ish at High Prairie last year, 45 yards off the road, standing there for what seemed like an eternity, 15 minutes before legal.
- 170 ish with a big drop tine at the South Mitsue 2 lane divide down that short road where you can see the log stockpile with the sign that says "no shooting" at 1 in the afternoon.
I have heard guys talk about "the guys that shoot the 170+ year after year after year bend the rules a bit sometimes". I have been chasing whitetails for 22 years, I am not lazy, I am not stupid, and I know where to hunt. I haven't taken a 170 buck yet. Luck? Skill? Maybe. I have seen 170+ deer in legal light, it happens. Some guys do luck out. But a guy that shoots something ridiculous every year.... ::) I know a guy from High Prairie that has a basement full of ridiculous deer, he had no qualms with trespassing or extending legal time. But they eventually caught up to him, shot a moose where he didn't have permission, from the road, while the poor guy who was sitting in a treestand on the edge of that field had his hunt ruined. Anyway just saying...
It's all about how much time you put in. My buddy shot a 228" whitey last year, and a 198" or something the year before, and the amount of time he put in to those deer is ridiculous. If you put in the time to kill a giant, you're gonna do it. I put in lots of pre-season into the buck I'm after, but I haven't been out in the field nearly enough to kill him. I had pics only of him at night, then when hunting season started I got day time pics of him and thought to myself, I'm gonna hunt him everyday. But I've never got around to putting enough stand time in yet and it's showing. I could of had him down in October IF I put the amount of effort into him as I wanted.
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It's all about how much time you put in. My buddy shot a 228" whitey last year, and a 198" or something the year before, and the amount of time he put in to those deer is ridiculous. If you put in the time to kill a giant, you're gonna do it. I put in lots of pre-season into the buck I'm after, but I haven't been out in the field nearly enough to kill him. I had pics only of him at night, then when hunting season started I got day time pics of him and thought to myself, I'm gonna hunt him everyday. But I've never got around to putting enough stand time in yet and it's showing. I could of had him down in October IF I put the amount of effort into him as I wanted.
Time is the #1 thing you need and then figuring them out and where to hunt them is another important thing. Other than that it is a lot of luck and if you are on your toes ready for that split second of chance you will be successfull or at least can say you did your best in the end. I usually see 1-2 170+ bucks in most years and if I am ready for those few times and shoot straight I will have my buck. Some years it just doesn't happen.
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That's the thing Nube, I'm not a roadhunter, but I have seen some very big deer while traveling, as I am sure most of us have. I haven't shot anything in 4 years because I am getting fussier in my old age. I also agree that it takes time to get a big deer, and I have less time these days due to other commitments.
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I am sure that when you get your 170" buck it will feel a lot better than shooting a coupel of them from roadhunting. Kind of like sitting on the mine and shooting a ram versus going and buring off a couple soles off your boots hiking and hunting hard.
Obviously you don't have a problem finding them Paul. Maybe you just need to try and figure out better how to get in and kill them? Maybe you just have real bad luck? I have buddies of mine that see way more bigger deer than me every year it seems but for soem reason they can't kill them. Who knows what it is sometimes. Hopefully this year you get him
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I think your ability bambi to inform people how great your deer are and good you are at hunting big deer is part of the reason that you are targeted in the ways that you are. Maybe im wrong though.
Just for curiosity sake how many 170+ typical or 195+ non typical whitetails have you shot?
SG
210, 182, 176, 176. only the biggets nets B&C at 202 5/8. there are several more in the high 60s.
some guys are going to take any posting of any picture as bragging. kyles ram is the best example. the things ive heard said about him are just unreal. i was there at pincher creek, and that kid has waaaaay more patience than i do. if i were him and put up with what he did, i guarantee someone would have been spitting chiclets. the whole point of these forums is a place to share pictures and stories surrounding outdoor pursuits. i look at these as a big, real time magazine. at first i thought most others felt the same, but on the other one in particular, it seems that a lot use these as a way of finding pretend friends as they must have very few in real life.
i could give a schit who does or doesnt like the pics i put up. i could give a schit who does or doesnt believe it. im sure you remember when a certain loudmouth hillbilly hollered and whined that im a roadhunting poacher because i wear jeans instead of camo. im used to that kind of jealousy by now. 10 years ago it bothered me, but ive learned that some just have to whine as its much easier than accepting that someone else has had more success than you at something. if it sounds like bragging when i show those pics and tell the stories......meh. if the pics arent enough to back up what i have to say, then that sounds like a problem on the other end. ive always thought it aint bragging if its true. go ahead and hate me for that now.
like i said, there are a few who have asked me how i do it, and what tips and techniques work. ive given them the very best advice i can. im guessing you have seen how many times someone has taken an animal and offered a thank you to me for helping. ill always do that and wish the best of luck to others. to those who cant do anything but whine as the jealousy drives them....i really do feel sorry for you.
nube really summed it up well. i know he gets a lot of abuse like this too, and even stopped posting pics at the other forum because of it. he has also offered up some very good advice in this thread. for those wanting to improve their success, it may be wise to take some of that knowledge and put it to good use.
i sincerely wish everyone here the best of luck in the next couple of weeks. things are just heating up where i am right now. yesterday robin had a good solid 180s mule on the go, but we just couldnt get there in time. when the clock struck at the end of the day, we were still just over 400 yards from him. today, eric missed a 160 kinda whitetail at first light, and on the way from the river back to camp we saw an easy 180 whitey in the dark. he will be job one in the morning.
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I agree sometimes you have to go get them. The biggest deer I ever shot 168 was at 1 in the afternoon, on a pine mossy area I walked into in a fairly well hunted area, I doubt anyone ever walked into it before as it doesn't look like good deer area. In the middle of it all was a small poplar ridge, I rattled for all of 10 seconds and he was on a full run to me, I assume I wlked right into his bedding area. On the way out I ran into a well known outfitter in the area who was driving around with his spotting scope, I won't say who but let's just say he share the same name with a famous clown who sells hamburgers, Walleyes probably knows who I am talking about. Anyway he informed me he had never ever seen that deer, even though him and his family own several quarters around that mossy area, and all he does constantly is look for big bucks starting in August.
Anyway at the end of the day, whether I break 170 or not, I have countless fond memories of time shared with best friends. We have had many laughs, some triumphs and certainly some heartbreak. I have learned many things about myself and life in general. And for that, I wouldn't trade anything.
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I agree sometimes you have to go get them. The biggest deer I ever shot 168 was at 1 in the afternoon, on a pine mossy area I walked into in a fairly well hunted area, I doubt anyone ever walked into it before as it doesn't look like good deer area. In the middle of it all was a small poplar ridge, I rattled for all of 10 seconds and he was on a full run to me, I assume I wlked right into his bedding area. On the way out I ran into a well known outfitter in the area who was driving around with his spotting scope, I won't say who but let's just say he share the same name with a famous clown who sells hamburgers, Walleyes probably knows who I am talking about. Anyway he informed me he had never ever seen that deer, even though him and his family own several quarters around that mossy area, and all he does constantly is look for big bucks starting in August.
Anyway at the end of the day, whether I break 170 or not, I have countless fond memories of time shared with best friends. We have had many laughs, some triumphs and certainly some heartbreak. I have learned many things about myself and life in general. And for that, I wouldn't trade anything.
Best comment in the thread. To many guys judge their own and others success by what they harvest and the size of that harvest. I got alot of harassment for not holding out for a buck bigger than my wifes this year but that buck I shot means way more to me than if I would have shot a 200" Typical by myself as i had the family with me and we were spending time on a track of land we love to hunt.. I guess im not a true trophy hunter or any good at it as I personaly havent shot any true hogs. I have 1 that grosses over 170, 4 or 5 over 160 and a few over 150 and have been 100% on a buck every year since I started to hunt, but many of the smaller deer mean the most due to the hunt that took place to get them. I honestly hope I never get to the point as many have to over look that the trophy is just a bonus and not what makes a good hunter or a successful hunt. Scores have a tendancy to blind many guys from seeing the rest of the picture. I have two bighorn rams on the wall and the hunt I remember most was when myself, MountainTi and my two boys went sheep hunting. Nothing was shot but I was as happy as if there was a 190" bighorn on the ground.
A good friend of mine told me last fall that he forgot the feeling of harvesting a buck and the joys of it as he has a 200" deer from years past and has been not pulling the trigger for a lot of years trying to top it. Last year he shot a 150" deer and got to feel that excitment again. The push to kill that buck bigger than the last made him lose a little from hunting. The hunt wasnt good enough unless that monster hit the dirt.
Bambi im glad your as successful as you say but like I said alot of time there are other factors that get rumors starting about people. If there are a few guys talking then lots of times its jealousy but if there are a bunch of people talking usually there is a reason. You know the truth and thats all that matters.
SG
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I agree with a lot you said sheepguide but for me score does matter both personally and for others. If I meet a guy that has 3 or 4 rams or 4 or 5 big whitetails I know what it takes to get there and that he knows what he is doing. I can respect that and his acomplishments. It's not a thing where I am better or he is better kind of thing but we understand and know what it takes to get that kind of success. You know you are talking to a guy that knows the animal and pays attention to the small details.
On the other hand I do not look down at any meat hunter or anyone who is proud of their success if it is a small animal.
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Nube, I can agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. I agree that taking a trophy requires perseverance, but it also requires time, and a lot of guys just can't get the time to pull it off. So it doesn't necessarily "make the man". If I had 30 days to hunt in November that would probably increase my odds, the fact is I don't, as do a lot of guys.
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Read the last line I posted in my last post Paul. I know it does not make the man to take a big animal and as I stated I don't look down on anyone that is happy with what he has. I think this is a sensitive topic for many. I don't want to piss anyone off here so I think maybe I am done for now talking about it. Some guys have a hard time discussing this kind of stuff. I am glad it has stayed pretty civil so far here and I do appolagize if I have said too much or have been misunderstood. :) Hopefully in a couple weeks when the season is done we are all happy with our year. I have been out a few times now and I will say that I think my season is going to end with a tag in my pocket or a small rat buck. All I see is tons of small 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer with the odd 145-150. That whole upper class of bucks in the area I hunt has been wiped out and I think if I do catch a big boy this year or next it will be a lot of luck big time. Going for 8 or 9 days next week and hopefully have some fun Trying to get 2 buddies a decent deer this year is going to be my goal. So far they have not had a lot of luck in much over 150".
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So tell me this Nube... if a guy in 20 years kills a 150" - 160"deer every other year and the next guy kills 2 or 3 - 175" - 180" net typical whitetails and and just a few smaller bucks over the same years. Who is a better hunter? Which hunter knows deer better? Them scores dont tell you a thing about how well a guy reads deer, how good he is at reading details or how good of a hunter he is! Each hunter could know deer the exactly the same and be just as smart at hunting them but just have different ideas on what to pull the trigger on. One may have permission on a private track of land that has great deer populations one could hunt only public forstry lots of variables dtermin things.
Just like rams, I have 2 small ones. Does that make me less of a hunter than a guy that has a 180" ram or 4 rams? I have a budy that has hunted sheep for three years. He shot his first ram his first year on opening day in the bush as it walked across the horse trail. The second was a late season Cadomin draw. His first is 176 and his second is 191. By your way of thinking looking at what he has acomplished he is a very skillfull dedicated sheep hunter. Ask him and he will say he has a ton of luck used up. The only way to judge a guys ability and skill is to actually set foot in the woods with him not by what he has on the wall.
Like I said to many guys put score as a way to judge a hunt or hunters.
SG
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the guy with a 160" buck every year beats a lucky 2 big deer for me.
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I am certainly not offended by anything that has been said here, I think this is a meaningful and relevant discussion.
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the guy with a 160" buck every year beats a lucky 2 big deer for me.
but what if that guy with the two big deer has turned down a bunch of 160"- 170" deer waiting for bigger ones? or if the guy with all the 155-160's has missed 2 190" deer?
You get what im saying!
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The words Better hunter are something that you can't judge in some ways and I agree. I can tell you what impresses me more and that is a guy that is consistent in killing trophy quality or consistent in killing something like a ram or having even the opportunity every year impresses me.
Also a guy that can consistently kill a few different types of animals that are decent quality impresses me. I was impressed by WILDMEATS post about him killing all of the critters he did in 4 days. That tells me the guy knows a few things. If I were to try and kill and elk every year I know it would take me a bit of work. Never done much of it and would love to start but too busy hunting other things for now. I think anyone that can whack a moose and an elk and a decent whitetail in 4 days deserves a pat on the back.
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I fully agree with you on Wildmeats success in 4 days, awesome, that's far more impressive to me than a guy that shoots a big buck every year, clearly it takes hard work to produce 3 different and respectable species in 4 days.
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about the only thing i can add from here is to say i dont view hunting as a competition. i dont think im better than thenext guy, or that the next guy might be better than me. i have goals that i strive for,and if i can achieve them, then thats the biggest success i am after. these days, just seeing a giant buck is the goal. taking him of course is the idea, but just finding him and laying eyes on a buck like that is worth the price of admission. like nube said, a guy that has consistent success has worked his arse off, and i appreciate the work he has done.
for those saying time matters.....i believe its the most important thing. not everyone gets all the time in the world to pursue their goals. my job keeps me busy as heck through the early season, so archery success has suffered for a couple years.....but im in the early stages of a 24 day strecth of hunting. that gives me a better chance than the guy who only gets weekends.
and darcy....definitely.....this topic has remained civil. thats the difference between the guys here and a certain other place. proof positive of who the real donkeys are starting wars in every damn thread, and who can have a gentlemenly discussion. more and more im liking this place and losing enthusiasm elsewhere.
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Good points Bambi. One of them I really like and that was about just finding a big buck. That is the biggest reason I love what I do with the trail camera thing. To me even just finding one with the camera is a thrill for me. Whether I bait them or not I could care less. I spend a ton of time doing it in past years and I have learnt so much while doing it and watching them it has made me a better hunter and I enjoy it so much. Just getting one on camera is alomost as much of a high as killing him.
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I stayed out of this thread just to watch where it went. I agree with points you all have made and I loved reading it. THIS is the way a forum is supposed to go boys, Gotta love it.
My .02 cents....... I have hunted my entire life, and hunted my ass off for the last 5 years every chance I get, and my biggest is last years 150 ish buck. I have only ever seen one better and I could have shot him but i wanted momma bear to shoot him, so I held off. We never did see him again, and it still haunts me to this day but I would do the same thing tomorrow. For me the biggest reward from hunting is taking my familly out and enjoying the hunt with me.
One day I will figure out where the big deer live, it just hasn't happened yet. But it keeps me coming back and planning every year.
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One thing also I just thought of if it has not been mentioned is area you hunt. I know a lot of you guys may put time in but you also might not be in the best area. I used to hunt for years with my dad out in the Vermillion area and although there are some good whitetail out there later on in life I found that there are way more better areas to hunt then that open prairie type land. The deer population was good but it was not as good as other areas and the chance for a deer to grow up was not the greatest as it could have been. Find the right areas that will grow big bucks and then put your time in. Learn an area well. It takes me about 4 years to start feeling like I know an area well enough to be comfortable in it.
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Awesome discussion boys some real good points on both sides. Personally I have done and still continue to do both style hunts trophy and at times meat hunt just depends on the situation and game in pursuit. As far as whitetail in the last 20 years I have pretty much been a trophy hunter with the odd meat buck taken. Just depends on what has transpired that fall. Take 2 falls ago I never made it out moose hunting I stayed south and did some local hunting,, filled my Antelope tag and a Muly tag that was burning a hole in my pocket. The oldest boy had his Muly tag as well. We hunted pretty hard that fall I put in probably close to 20 solid days on the trail put on quite a few miles on the boots. Early on in the hunt we passed on a couple in the 150 - 160 mark looking for a bigger deer. For us it never happened so on the last day we went out and filled our tags on a couple meat bucks. We put some dandy meat in the freezer and we couldn't of been happier. They were young tender awesome table fare. There have been times over the years I have done the same with whitetail. We had only 1 moose in moose camp to go around 2 or 3 families so I went out and got early an whitetail buck and a doe,, no qualms about it.. I had a young family at home that loved wild meat and not a lot of money in the bank.. Believe it or not but when the wife and I were younger and had 3 boys at home we depened quite heavily on wild meat for the table. Trophy hunt for that I don't think so..
When you think about it fellows the good Lord never put those animals on this earth so we could hang a set of horns on the wall. He put them here so we could eat. Now in this day and age we certainly don't need it but there is no doubt in my mind there are a lot of folk that have lost focus on the real goal of a hunt,, and thats to put meat on the table.. Anything other than that and its just a sport and to cheapin a hunt and call it a sport,, well thats not for me.. And I said thats for me I cast no judgement on the next man each to his own. Now those years that I meat hunted rather than trophy hunted was I less a hunter or less skilled ?? don't think so I just did what had to be done. I know this,, I was born and raised in whitetail country hard core whiteail country and have been for the most part in the last 20 years a trophy hunter. There are very few men that have spent as much time as I have have out in the woods in prime whitetail country and probly very few as in tune with the wild as I am in that country very few and I know this my wall isn't full of trophies. Yah I have a couple nice deer. 1 in the 80's couple in the 60's and a couple in the 50's. Luck boys is a very big part of the equation a very big part..
There are a few of us on here that are solid hunters and when one tries to stick his neck out as being a little better just cause his wall has a couple more sets of bone on it than the next,, well you can expect a bit of pushing and shoving cause boys this is a pretty tough crowd to start that in..
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Well said Walleyes! I do beleive many have lost the true sense of the hunt by trying to up the score value of trophies. Like I said im glad others have had good"Luck" on some big deer but they best not think to fast that that makes one person better than another because down the road a big dish of humble pie will be served to them guaranteed.
One day I may put a gagger buck on the wall and I will always look for one but until that time and after that time im just gunna live in the moments and just enjoy the hunt and the fine table fair!
SG
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Your calling it "Luck" sheepguide? Anyone that can produce on a regular basis has a little more than "luck"
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Never said it was all luck now did I? As it does take skill for sure but there also has to have that luck factor also. I know guys that are awesome hunters, have put endless days in the field and have yet to kill a "big" deer . Why because they arent as good of hunters? No, because they seem to run a stretch of bad luck!! Coyotes screwing them up, other hunters, a twig that was unseen or weather that moved in. Are you a better hunter because you have some big deer on the wall. Id put alott of money that you arent, but luck went your way on them days but it wasnt 100% because you were a "Better Hunter"!
Sure it takes skill to harvest big deer regularly but you guys seem to try and put the guys with the most and biggest trophies on some pedastal!!!! That shows a guy is dedicated but doesnt mean a guy is a better or more dedicated hunter than the next guy.
So to answer your question... yes it does take a certain amount of luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
SG
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I would put everything I have, which isn't much, on the fact that Fred Eichler from 10 years ago would run a clinic on everyone on this forum. His animals were all small, but he also spots and stalks turkeys. What I'm saying is simple rack size smack size, I don't want to hear about what you have done. I want to SEE what you can do right now. Antlers won't tell me how good you are, but 50 km into the Yukon back country sure will.
Regards,
Adam
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Exactly Adam! The only way to truely see how skilled a hunter is, is by spending time with them in the bush. Like you said Antlers on the wall in general show you nothing on how good that hunter truely is in my opinion.
SG
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The focus on the hunt has really changed over the last 20 years and rightly so. Our fathers and grandfathers hunted in the true sense of necessity. There are very few people in our world that hunt with the same intent. Today we hunt because we want to not because we have to. Now in this realm some choose to pursue the larger of the species they are pursuing some are content with having the meat to enjoy. There are many like myself that differ from animal to animal their priorities as whether its a meat hunt or trophy hunt in the end it really doesn't matter just as long as we do it legally and ethically. Personally I have met more than one hunter that has a couple nice trophies on the wall in his home but after talking with the fellow I wouldn't let him chop wood for my camp let alone consider him a good hunter. Now if we start to judge a hunter by the size of the horns on his wall indeed we are stooping to a new low, we are cheapening the hunt taking away from the true essence of it. But I certainly wouldn't call those that do trophy hunt cheap or low,, no way.. Its their choice have at it. But in turn anyone of them that would consider themselves a better hunter than some because they have a couple more big racks than the next guy,, well what can be said about them ?? It would just go to show how truly intelligence said person is.
I blame a lot of this trophy size, best hunter attitude bull shit on the media we have today. 95% of the coverage we see is about bigger is better. Its all a competition to get the most and biggest in the books. Truly they should take them damn books and burn them. What a disgrace to an animal to put a number on it. If thats all that animal is to you is a bigger number than truly its a sad day..
In the end as long as we respect the animal we pursue and we respect each other and don't judge then all is good.
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When I took it the Skull and Horns in to the F&W I was nervous as I heard alot of different story's. But I got the permit for it as well they plugged it and it's registered, not really the way I wanted my first registered ram to be.
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Cool find Decker. I am always keeping an eye out for Bone while hunting as well. I know a guy who picked up a 186 winterkill years ago. He put his tag on it ,took it to the C.O's his story checked out and they gave him another tag to continue hunting. Man i was surprised how heavy it was.
Sheepguide has an eye for antler as well, finds an Elk shed ...i find the match , he says Oh yeah...if you want to find a Moose shed you look from an elevation point into the valley and ....there's one right there. He finds a Big Moose shed. Nothing to it.
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well oddly enough, here i go. i took a head into F&W yesterday for a permit. its onkly the second time i have ever founf something i would like to keep. turns out the first time i applied for a permit that someone else already had an application going. anyway, i was told it would be ready today. when i went to get it...nope. i was told it isnt ready as some supervisor needed to approve it? hmmm. im hoping this doesnt get silly......
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Cool find Decker. I am always keeping an eye out for Bone while hunting as well. I know a guy who picked up a 186 winterkill years ago. He put his tag on it ,took it to the C.O's his story checked out and they gave him another tag to continue hunting. Man i was surprised how heavy it was.
Sheepguide has an eye for antler as well, finds an Elk shed ...i find the match , he says Oh yeah...if you want to find a Moose shed you look from an elevation point into the valley and ....there's one right there. He finds a Big Moose shed. Nothing to it.
Them sheds we found Springer were in the same general valley as Deckers ram was found.
SG
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SG ,Its to bad we couldnt access that trail in until July ,with atvs anyway. I already am planning Shed hunting for Spring.
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Phil I found a spot loaded with moose yesterday to look for sheds. We saw 12 moose in one muskeg!
SG
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Just let me know when you want to check it out....My Moose shed pile is pretty pathetic so far.