United Conservative Party.

[avb3]

There are a lot of clichés that permeate our society these days.

One term that is used by the drive by smear media is "alt right"

May I ask what is an "alt right"?

What does an "alt right" believe in?

AVB? Don't you live in Florida these days?

Only live there half the time. The term 'alt-right' was invented not by the media, but.. surprise, surprise, by the alt-right.


From Wikipedia:


The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loose group of people with far-rightideologies who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of white nationalism, principally in the United States, but also to a lesser degree in Canada and Europe.[1][2][3][4]Paul Gottfried is the first person to use the term "alternative right", when referring specifically to developments within American right-wing politics, in 2008.[5]The term has since gained wide currency with the rise of the so-called "alt-right". White supremacist[6]Richard Spencer coined the term in 2010 in reference to a movement centered on white nationalism, and has been accused by some media publications of doing so to excuse overt racism, white supremacism, and neo-Nazism.[1][7] The term drew considerable media attention and controversy during and after the 2016 US presidential election.


So, apparently not a drive by smear, but a label picked proudly by those who so defined themselves

[avb3]

LOL.  Greylynx and I posted almost simultaneously on the stupid "Alt Right" term.
Ya, it is obvious, that term will not fly anymore, that old card has been played already.

As posted above, the 'alt-right' invented the term for themselves. Tell them they were wrong.

[avb3]

If it wasn't for the alt-right you wouldn't have a WR party you wouldn't have a Conservative party that has been forced to get back to its roots. You would still have Liberals running under a conservative banner which is what we had. I think it's important to have both far right and those wish washy feel goody inside pansies or liberals as they are better known in a party to have a balance. As far as social issues why not, there's nothing wrong with some sort of moral compass to guide people. Look how these countries are doing with out it my goodness how far down do we have to go before people realize it's to far,, not much farther I hope.

I disagree. I was one of the founding members of our CA, and as others, we were disillusioned where the PCs were going. How are you going to define 'moral compass'? Is it a religious base? If so, whose and why?


You may want to look at those countries who are most secular, as they are the same countries with the least amount of violent crime, generally the happiest, as well whose citizens feel they are served best by their socio-economic situation. I'll pick secular over anyone's religious perceptions any day. Religions get you a Saudi Arabia or Iran. Or a 1500's Spain. Thanks but no thanks.

[avb3]

Hmmm interesting.  Facebook bans guns, hunting, anything other than ludicrous extreme left borderline fascist garbage posted and regurgitated.
Seems to me likely very few conservative or libertarian types are on facebook.

Oh, sure it's like crackbook for many women who pay no attention to politics but simply put, I don't know a single man that's on it;  seriously, not one.

I can name two. Jason Kenney and Brian Jean. Among a few million others.

[AxeMan]

As posted above, the 'alt-right' invented the term for themselves. Tell them they were wrong.

And the lefties use the term completely out of context to label conservative Albertans including the Wildrose.
This term as you defined is used to describe white supremacists and neo-Nazi's.
Nothing but a fear tactic to influence weak minded voters.
Such BS!

AVB, you will be called out here just like on AO for your passive aggressive lefty attitude.
And never compare "old stock" religious beliefs in Canada to crap holes like Saudi Arabia or Iran with their barbaric Muslim religion there. 
That is pure bs and you know it.

[avb3]

And the lefties use the term completely out of context to label conservative Albertans including the Wildrose.
This term as you defined is used to describe white supremacists and neo-Nazi's.
Nothing but a fear tactic to influence weak minded voters.
Such BS!

AVB, you will be called out here just like on AO for your passive aggressive lefty attitude.
And never compare "old stock" religious beliefs in Canada to crap holes like Saudi Arabia or Iran with their barbaric Muslim religion there. 
That is pure bs and you know it.

There is no reason for any religion to be involved in the governing of our cities, provinces or country. Citizens are from all religious beliefs, or none at all. They are all citizens.


Just because someone doesn't cotton on to the extreme right that prevented the Wildrose to be elected, doesn't make them left or liberal. It just doesn't make them an extreme right person. I was on our CA executive for a number of years, and door knocked with our PC conservative candidate before that for many elections. So don't give me this "lefty attitude" crap. My guess is I have walked the talk more than most here working for conservative parties for decades, but I won't swallow whatever cool-aid that is served.

[W101]

Please if you will define  " Social Issues "
Somebody ,Anybody ? I know I am to far right !
 The absolute crap the Dips have brought to the
  table since their short reign began just spin me out .
 
    What do you believe the important Govt policies
     Should be ?

[AxeMan]

There is no reason for any religion to be involved in the governing of our cities, provinces or country. Citizens are from all religious beliefs, or none at all. They are all citizens.


Just because someone doesn't cotton on to the extreme right that prevented the Wildrose to be elected, doesn't make them left or liberal. It just doesn't make them an extreme right person. I was on our CA executive for a number of years, and door knocked with our PC conservative candidate before that for many elections. So don't give me this "lefty attitude" crap. My guess is I have walked the talk more than most here working for conservative parties for decades, but I won't swallow whatever cool-aid that is served.

Then don't come on here and spew your "alt-right" and "extreme right that prevented the Wildrose to be elected" talk.  You are the one who brought this up in this thread and we will counter your "alt-right" crappola with our "lefty or commie" rebuttals.  Can't you see that you defend the left every time, it is obvious.  I do not for one second believe you ever supported the PC's.  You missed the FACT that the Wildrose was first and foremost about fiscal responsibility and sustainability.  Your comments come across as a drive by smear.

And on the religion, like I just told you in my previous response, do not muddy the waters by comparing Canada to barbaric examples of religious states.  Ya, you like secular, fine.  I feel Canada should not sell our old morals and culture which has some Christian religious overtones. Canada is a majority Christian country, ya we know Justin is looking to change that.  Example, Muslim immigrants come here and demand concessions from our government to support their religion.  Look at the rezoning in Quebec right now for that Muslim cemetery.  Should existing Canadian citizens be forced to change their land rules to accommodate?

[avb3]

Then don't come on here and spew your "alt-right" and "extreme right that prevented the Wildrose to be elected" talk.  You are the one who brought this up in this thread and we will counter your "alt-right" crappola with our "lefty or commie" rebuttals.  Can't you see that you defend the left every time, it is obvious.  I do not for one second believe you ever supported the PC's.  You missed the FACT that the Wildrose was first and foremost about fiscal responsibility and sustainability.  Your comments come across as a drive by smear.

It was, no question. However, you can't deny that there were a significant number of social conservatives who made their point of view known loudly, frequently and vehemently. That turned people off who are inside the Wildrose, gave ammunition to other parties, and caused us to lose in many, especially urban, ridings. Who can question that the 2012 election was lost because of the bozo eruptions? And that label stuck to this day with many of the electorate. That is reality.

And on the religion, like I just told you in my previous response, do not muddy the waters by comparing Canada to barbaric examples of religious states.  Ya, you like secular, fine.  I feel Canada should not sell our old morals and culture which has some Christian religious overtones. Canada is a majority Christian country, ya we know Justin is looking to change that.  Example, Muslim immigrants come here and demand concessions from our government to support their religion.  Look at the rezoning in Quebec right now for that Muslim cemetery.  Should existing Canadian citizens be forced to change their land rules to accommodate?

I in no way support accommodation for ANY religion, now, in the future, or frankly, what occurred in the past, and now is 'tradition'. Just because Canada is a majority Christian country does not mean the minorities should be ruled by that philosophy. That is called the tyranny of the majority, and is exactly the type of crap we as gun owners have been subject to. We don't like it, and we certainly don't want the majority who are non-hunters to determine our ability to hunt either, do we? Same thing goes for Christian traditions as it impacts society. And I sure the hell don't want to see Muslim traditions replace them. Stay secular, and religions can keep their beliefs outside of government.


Out of interest, some of the world's most successful countries are secular, such as Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Australia or Japan.


To get back on topic, I feel it is important that the UCP focus on the economic and fiscal issues, and leave the social ones alone. Ralph had the right attitude on that when discussing abortion, when he said, "That's between the woman, her doctor, and whatever god she may believe in."


I miss Ralph.

[AxeMan]

" To get back on topic, I feel it is important that the UCP focus on the economic and fiscal issues, and leave the social ones alone. "

Yes, then do that and leave out the "alt-right" smears on this new UCP party for now.
Those smears were overblown in the past on the Wild Rose and Brian Jean has spoken on that.  The "lake of fire guy" is gone.  One guy.
I know the many including the media will try to make social issues front and center when our debt is spiraling into the abyss.
I do not believe our current laws are at all unfair on social issues now.

[Walleyes]

It's impossible to leave social issues out of government. What do we do when people want their sex changes paid for by all tax payers ? What do we do when 40 year olds start wanting to have sex with 12 year olds ? What do we do when Muslims want Sharia Law to over ride our laws ? So on and so on. It's a pipe dream avb3 it can't be done. We see all these things happening in this country now what do we do, stick our heads in the sand and hope they go away ? I don't advocate religious law either, man was designed for and given free will and choice and it should remain that way but countries like ours laws were based on Christian fundamentals and beliefs and it's inherently obvious the farther we get away from those standards the farther down the shit hole we go. You talk about free will. In the WR party these alt-right groups you speak of first off you know and I know we're never as extreme as the media made them out to look, it was the left wing agenda to make them out to look like nuts. If they were a little too far right, if they were pushing a religious agenda in their region so what. These were elected people MLA's in their regions or looking to be elected backed by the majority in their area what is it to anyone else what that region wants. There are regions in Alberta that have very strong ties to Christianity if they want to be governed in a certain way so be it. Why is it alright for the left regions to have their way but not the right, why I is it alright for the Left agenda to be shoved down our throats. Let people decide their government and be governmened by those choices it's that simple.

[Walleyes]

But yes axe you are right,, I have no issue with the way Alberta's laws now, well a couple small things can be brought back but they are no real big issues. Let's deal with the elephant in the room and that's the dept and fiscal policies. Let's get this province rolling again, it won't take much either we are on the brink of going ahead we just need a government that isn't ashamed of what we do here for a living.

[avb3]

It's impossible to leave social issues out of government. What do we do when people want their sex changes paid for by all tax payers ? What do we do when 40 year olds start wanting to have sex with 12 year olds ? What do we do when Muslims want Sharia Law to over ride our laws ? So on and so on. It's a pipe dream avb3 it can't be done. We see all these things happening in this country now what do we do, stick our heads in the sand and hope they go away ?

You make some valid points, and I actually agree with most of what you said here. What I don't agree with is for some, and I emphasize the word some, members of the Wildrose pushed their religious beliefs as the reason for their social ones, just like Muslims do with Sharia. What is wrong with looking at social issues from the perspective of if it harms society or members in it, then we need to address it. Otherwise, leave it alone.


As example, a 12 year old can not give consent, so that child is harmed, and you bet we should have laws against that. On the other hand, who is harmed if Steve and Johnny want to get married? No one, so let's not interfere with that. If they want to be a married couple, it doesn't harm you, it doesn't harm me nor society, does it? They are the only ones affected by it.

I don't advocate religious law either, man was designed for and given free will and choice and it should remain that way but countries like ours laws were based on Christian fundamentals and beliefs and it's inherently obvious the farther we get away from those standards the farther down the shit hole we go. You talk about free will. In the WR party these alt-right groups you speak of first off you know and I know we're never as extreme as the media made them out to look, it was the left wing agenda to make them out to look like nuts. If they were a little too far right, if they were pushing a religious agenda in their region so what.

The so what is that they are no better than Muslims pushing Sharia law. And let's not forget, an elected official is suppose to represent ALL of their constituents, not just the ones who agreed with them. Most of our MLA's, no matter what political stripe, often forget that. They also forget that those that voted for them may be SDA, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim or atheist, and should never represent one over the others. The baristas that were elected in some urban ridings are the worst for forgetting that, and hopefully they are gone next election.

[AxeMan]

Fildebrandt in the news.  You guys know I dislike this clown.  I hope he goes down for good.
Go Brian Jean.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/08/09/finance-critic-derek-fildebrandt-rents-downtown-digs-on-airbnb-while-claiming-housing-allowance

[sonny]

lol...

Don't hate me axe but Go Jason Kenny..

[AxeMan]

He is donating the rental funds to the Provincial debt now that he has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[Sooner]

To me this guy has always came across as an arrogant azz with a I'm better than you attitude. I am liking his fall from grace today. He is now saying Jeans camp is behind the leak.  After coming out and bashing Jean 2 days ago and every chance he gets too and all the back scene knives he threw at Jean as a Wildroser, why would Kenny want his support going forward? I kinda think it's Kenny's camp who leaked it and in one shot, dealt with this tool and guaranteed he would not be around his camp to pull down Kenny's game.

Another interesting day in Ab politics. Since Redford, you never know whats coming next.

[avb3]

Never did like Fildebrandt. He always sounded disingenuous, I didn't like him trying to deep six Brian Jean, and even if what he did was legal, it sure the hell wasn't ethical.

[AxeMan]

In an e-mailed statement on Thursday, Fildebrandt said: “I am scheduled to leave for a family vacation out of province tomorrow and will be taking a leave of absence from my finance duties effective today.”

When did he schedule that, this morning? 

[sonny]

I miss Ralph...he was one of a kind.