Author Topic: Who Decides How Cold It Feels ? (Read 2500 times)

walleyes · « **on:** January 04, 2015, 10:36:37 AM »

I don't get this new deal going on with these weather people and there "feels like" weather. You know what I mean. Like today it's -33 here but they say it's -33 but feels like -45 excuse me.. No it feels like -33 with a breeze that's how it feels. I mean,, who decides what feels like what. They never used to do this this is some kind of new town kid weather lingo. -33 is -33 that's just what it is it's cold,, get over it and get at it. Just another excuse for lack of effort on people's part.

K daily rant over..

Paul · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:51:03 AM »

Yeah never heard this growing up. If it was 40 below no one said "feels like" they just said it's 40 below you knew to dress warm.

AxeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2015, 11:44:00 AM »

Ya, it doesn't make any sense at all.
Just the media idiot's attempts to dumb it down for the public.

guido · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2015, 02:24:45 PM »

Same as when the weather person says 30 % chance of precipitation. They are never wrong now.

bigbore444 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:34:21 PM »

Think that they count the wind factor into it. That's all it is. But more easy to say" feels like its."

That dang wind is a killer. -20 ain't bad but you got a 30 km wind dang that's cold.

SouthernGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:08:59 AM »

They are just referring to wind chill which is the temperature any warm blooded creature (like us) would feel. This link explains it pretty well. Living on the flats we take windchill pretty seriously, when its getting to "feel like" -55 or -60 it is pretty dangerous to be out in the open with no where to escape the wind.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/meteo-weather/default.asp?lang=En&n=5FBF816A-1#table1

walleyes · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:56:14 AM »

I got a handle on why they do it,, it's just silly to me is all. I would like to know how they measure this though, that I know of there is no device to measure windchill. There is a table they use, that was man made but there is no scale or mechanical device to measure it.

Anyways it was all kind of in fun,, had to blow off some morning frustration cause the hands out here were all wimping out. Should have seen this morning, my goodness, had to gather the boys in and give them a pep talk before someone got hurt.

It's days like this we separate the men from the boys and find out who the real hands are. Anybody can get a job done when it's + 10 the men get it done regardless of what temp it is.

Weste · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2015, 12:20:00 PM »

Quote from: walleyes on January 05, 2015, 09:56:14 AM

I got a handle on why they do it,, it's just silly to me is all. I would like to know how they measure this though, that I know of there is no device to measure windchill. There is a table they use, that was man made but there is no scale or mechanical device to measure it.

Anyways it was all kind of in fun,, had to blow off some morning frustration cause the hands out here were all wimping out. Should have seen this morning, my goodness, had to gather the boys in and give them a pep talk before someone got hurt.

It's days like this we separate the men from the boys and find out who the real hands are. Anybody can get a job done when it's + 10 the men get it done regardless of what temp it is.

I agree. The reason its not measured is because its not real, the temperature is the temperature. Its a cool down rate measurement, not a temperature measurement. Anyway I agree with you, its silly to do it and, unfortunately, many people think its the actual temperature.

AxeMan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:26:25 PM »

Windchill might be a factor on the summit of K2.

Sonny · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:36:39 PM »

Check out the temps at Mount Vostock ...

AxeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:46:30 PM »

Okay then......

Which one would you rather have to pull down your pants to have a dump on?

K2 at -45C with a 115 km/h wind -77 windchill
or
Vostok at -89.2C calm winds -89.2 windchill

Sonny · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:53:34 PM »

Depends...

Yup......adult diapers...Depends or Always..

Not that I know about those...hehe

AxeMan · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:56:11 PM »

Goodnite Sonny.....lol.
I was going to say K2 because I would rather crap on Pakistan than Russian Antarctica.

Vindalbakken · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2015, 07:55:02 AM »

Wind chill is real, and it is a pretty simple concept. Funny how so few people understand it.

AxeMan · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2015, 08:40:25 AM »

The point is that windchill is a human factor though. Real to our perceptions, yes. Our feelings.
It is represented by simply a temperature value though which is really inherently wrong.

Take our little example of K2 versus Vostok.

Say K2 windchill is -79C windchill (actual temp = -46C but say 120km/h wind)
Say Vostok is actual -89.2C

If we take a piece of dry ice (CO2) which has a sublimation point of -78.5C. It will not evaporate at Vostok but will evaporate like crazy on K2 even with the windchill value there below the sublimation point; K2's real temp is still -46C. The dry ice won't care about windchill, it is not human.

Vindalbakken, what the guys are saying here is that we would rather have a true temperature and a wind value reported and we will equate that to the feeling of cold in our own minds. The guys certainly understand cold effect of a brisk wind. We don't need a dumbed down "feels like" artificial temperature value. Some media weather people report windchill values as if they were the true temperature these days without making the distinction.

Vindalbakken · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2015, 01:40:22 PM »

Every weather report I have seen gives the real temperature, the wind speed and the "wind chill" value. So, if you don't have a use for the wind chill number, the other information is there just as readily - they aren't hiding it.

I doubt that anyone reporting wind chill factors is doing so for the benefit of those trying to thaw dry ice

AxeMan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2015, 05:25:13 PM »

Well, okay then.......but

But I am pretty sure I proved that wind chill is not a temperature and that was my only intent for the example.

I am going to call you out on your comment "Wind chill is real, and it is a pretty simple concept. Funny how so few people understand it."

Sorry, but you kind of set yourself up on that one. Kind of the subject and point of this thread: "Who Decides How Cold It Feels ?" lol.

Ya, windchill is such a simple concept.

So simple that "there is no universally agreed standard for what the term should mean" to quote Wikipedia and different countries cannot agree on a universal formula to calculate it.

Canada never adopted a "Windchill Temperature" standard until 2001. That is why the OP never heard of it growing up!
Prior to that we had the old WCI = Wind chill index, kcal/m2/h A cool down rate on exposed skin. This is the correct value for windchill, not a temperature value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

Original model:

Canadian Model:

Australian Model:

where

Yikes...not so simple....eh???

weeman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2015, 06:15:53 PM »

After checking forecast with environment Canada, I use rock forecaster.

AxeMan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2015, 10:16:41 PM »

Sonny started this Mexican thing on another another thread......

Vindalbakken · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2015, 12:00:19 AM »

Quote from: AxeMan on January 31, 2015, 05:25:13 PM

Well, okay then.......but
But I am pretty sure I proved that wind chill is not a temperature and that was my only intent for the example.

I am going to call you out on your comment "Wind chill is real, and it is a pretty simple concept. Funny how so few people understand it."
Sorry, but you kind of set yourself up on that one. Kind of the subject and point of this thread: "Who Decides How Cold It Feels ?" lol.

Ya, windchill is such a simple concept. So simple that "there is no universally agreed standard for what the term should mean" to quote Wikipedia and different countries cannot agree on a universal formula to calculate it.

Canada never adopted a "Windchill Temperature" standard until 2001. That is why the OP never heard of it growing up!
Prior to that we had the old WCI = Wind chill index, kcal/m2/h A cool down rate on exposed skin. This is the correct value for windchill, not a temperature value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

Original model:

Canadian Model:

Australian Model:

where

Yikes...not so simple....eh???

The difficulty in defining and calculating has nothing to do with the simplicity of the concept.

And in the end, the wind chill value does not answer all dilemmas either. If the raw wool siwash my Grandmother knit will keep me warm at -30 on a dead calm day, why is it worth diddly squat on a -10 day with a -25 Wind Chill?