Why Do We Hate Lawyers?

[AxeMan]

Because of scum like this Dennis Edney guy, that's why!  He is Omar Khadr's lawyer.
This guy has been lecturing us on how poor Omar is an angel.  Omar is moving in with him now he is free.
It is the condescending/lecturing tone of this guy that pisses me off most.
The SOB is just laying his plan for lining his pockets when Omar sues Canada and writes his book and he gets half, imo.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/omar-khadr-free-on-bail-lawyer-says-wonderful-day-for-justice-1.2363711

May you rest in peace U.S. Army medic Sgt. Christopher Speer.  Omar threw the grenade that killed this young medic.

[Sonny]

I heard this scum bucket lawyer on the radio this afternoon praising this Khadr terrorist and I wanted to puke.

Then I heard him call PM Harper a bigot and I wanted to bitchslap this arsehole...

[Walleyes]

I wonder who is paying for his defence..

[Marmot]

Heres a question.

What did we do with Hitler youth caught during WWII?

Honestly.... The situation is very similar.

13... Dragged off by pop... Orphaned overseas.... Indoctrinated... Trained.... Armed.... Fighting....Killed good guys.... Caught.


Cant lock him up forever folks and your rights are only as secure as his.

Distasteful? Yup.
But you either believe in the rule of law...rights....treaties or.... You find yourself having more in common with your enemies than its comfortable to admit.

The guy is out.... He will be monitored.... He has already spend more time in jail than most adults who murdered.
Could be a diamond in the rough and a useful tool in preventing radicalizatin.

We will have to see I guess.

[AxeMan]

Marmot,  it was his mouthy and disrespectful lawyer that I was bitching about.  If that guy mouthed it up like he does in my face he would get a smack.  He could take me to court and do his thing.
The SOB even went so far as to call our Prime Minister a bigot.
His sorry sob story about poor little Omar doesn't cut it for me.

[Sonny]

Marmot,  it was his mouthy and disrespectful lawyer that I was bitching about.  If that guy mouthed it up like he does in my face he would get a smack.  He could take me to court and do his thing.
The SOB even went so far as to call our Prime Minister a bigot.
His sorry sob story about poor little Omar doesn't cut it for me.

Axe...let me buy you a beer because I feel the same way.

That lawyer needs to be sued or atleast slapped in the face.

Harper is doing what needs to be done to fight terrorists and these bleeding heart liberals want to coddle them..wtf is up with that?

[Marmot]

So I guess nobody knows what we disposed of captured Hitler Youth or why then?
Anyone else here ever been around boy soldiers?
Anyone here ever been through an intense indoctrination process where they found themselves in isolation from the real world?
Anyone here considered what they would do if their old man had fed them hate then dragged them off to a boot camp run by sociopaths at age 13?

Really guys.

Please explain to me what a 13 year old was supposed to do when daddy delivered him?
What was a 14 year olld whose father was now dead supposed to do while surrounded by a bunch of controlling psychos?
And finally...having been trained and conditioned to respond as he did... What was he supposed to do when attacked by an armed force?

The death of that medic was tragic but he was not the only victim in this mess.

As for what the lawyer said... So what?
Are PMs immune from comment in a feee society or just this PM?
The guy is entitled to an opinion and if we take an unbiased look at the amount of effort leveled against a guy that was whisked away at age 13 then tossed to the wolves... I suspect we might find that a lot of folks are at least wondering the same thing.
Too bad Mr Harper didnt take as much interest in the potato farmer from PEI that was  wronglylocked up then denied his rights when he tried to return home.
To bad he wasnt interested in the laws of this country or international treaties when the Khadr was captured and the US tried to repatriate him.
The lawyers job is to defend his client and like any good lawyer he knows that the best defense is a good offence.
It has also been a long and exhaustive process during which the PMO has doggedly interefered and tried to influence courts that are supposed to be independant of politics.

Personally I think the guy is just a boogy man....he needs to be locked up and feared so things like C-51 can be implimented without too much fuss.
It just wouldnt do to have Canadians find out that kitty has been de-clawed or worse yet... That he never was all that scarey.
The other thing is that by now the government knows it buggered up and they are trying to stall the eventual fallout.

Its a fools errand though.... His guards, prosecutors and interrogators, shrinks ad nauseum  have all spoke of him favourably.

If we had handled this better at the get go we would barely remember his name.
He would be nothing and a nobody.
Now, because we followed the Liberals lead.... The guy will become a poster boy for rights violation, a celebrity and quite wealthy.... Hardly a favourable outcome but it will happen... Further stalling will not prevent it  but it will make it worse.

[Sonny]

And no one remembers Christopher James Speer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Speer

But poor little Omar is the victim...

Come on folks....omar is a killer and don't forget it...

[Marmot]

Oh please... There has been more press about that American Medic than any one of our own dead....especially as of late.

Two armed groups encountered one another.
Spears team attacked the other... Its a war... An unlawful one to boot.
He was a soldier...soldiers die in wars.
Thats how it works.... You point your guns at the baddies...they point theirs at you.
That last part sort if sucks but its not unexpected so you try not to take it too personnally and that includes not pretending that you took machine guns to a picnic at 0 dark 30 and were set uppin by villians right between the fried chicken and dessert.

Whether khadr was a soldier by the usual definition or not... He was trained and conditioned to respond like one and the GD training works...trust me on that.

You make it sound like he went to the store to buy smokes and got attacked on the street of his home town while minding his own business.


I get the irritation folks... Really ... but I think you need to adjust your point of aim and direct it and the folks who frigged up and not the guy whose job it is to point that fact out.

[Sonny]

Whether khadr was a soldier by the usual definition or not... He was trained and conditioned to respond like one and the GD training works...trust me on that.

And Chris Spear is still dead right?

[Marmot]

Whether khadr was a soldier by the usual definition or not... He was trained and conditioned to respond like one and the GD training works...trust me on that.

And Chris Spear is still dead right?

Yup... Whats your point?

Lors of people are dead.
Soldiers, civilian, partisans, insurgents, mercenaries....

How long are we supposed to hold someone accoountable for the death of a US soldier in war?

Too bad this much effort wasnt put into seeking justice for the killing of a friend of mine and some others by a US pilot who decided to drop his load on them.

Still waiting for someone to tell me what we did with Hitler youth...why and the outcome.
Im also wondering why the response must be different for this one individual despite the fact that his treatment was contrary to an international treaty that we signed as a nation only weeks earlier.

Dont get me wrong here... I have no love for him. In fact iProbably have more reasons than most to hate.
Do not confuse sympathy with professional detatchment.

[BruceW]

This is not a person who as a young man was pressed into service by his country like the youth of Germany were.  The comparison is completely wrong.  The hitler youth didn't go overseas to fight against their countrymen, and towards the end of the war, boys as young as 9 or 10 were pressed into service.  And to answer the question, they were treated as any other soldier.  The early war hitler youth were known as dangerous fanatics and killed. Towards the end most of the fanatics were dead, as were most German men of any age.

This is much more than a "child soldier".  Canadian born, fighting against his countrymen, and while the press makes it sound like his only act was the killing of the american medic the press somehow, conveniently forgets the picture of him smiling while wearing a necklace of severed human hands.  (are we supposed to pretend that never happened?)

Thousands of Americans were killed there, they didn't detain someone like that just because they were a common soldier.  This is not a little angel who did, "one" thing wrong, that's the presses version to placate the masses. 

Far as the lawyer, I agree there's a difference between doing their job to represent a client under our current law and offering their services pro bono to such a case while derisively insulting our country for personal press exposure.  The second example I believe meet's the definition of, "scummy".

Marmot I think you're buying into this, "poor child soldier" thinking.  You may want to do some real research on what these, "child soldiers" have been and are doing in Africa.  The press has been using that term to create sympathy.  Simple fact is the enemy who wants to kill you is the enemy.  It appears if you want a force to commit unbelievable attrocities with no remorse whatsoever, child soldiers are the way to go.  Closing your eyes and clicking your heels together while wishing with all your might won't change that, and if the US detained khadr, there was a reason;  that they don't tell us that reason makes no difference.  The war is still going on.

[AxeMan]

I'll keep this comment short and sweet and completely sum up my feelings and no amount of words will change that.
Pieces of Shit, the Khadrs and their lawyer.

[Marmot]

This is not a person who as a young man was pressed into service by his country like the youth of Germany were.  The comparison is completely wrong.  The hitler youth didn't go overseas to fight against their countrymen, and towards the end of the war, boys as young as 9 or 10 were pressed into service.  And to answer the question, they were treated as any other soldier.  The early war hitler youth were known as dangerous fanatics and killed. Towards the end most of the fanatics were dead, as were most German men of any age.

This is much more than a "child soldier".  Canadian born, fighting against his countrymen, and while the press makes it sound like his only act was the killing of the american medic the press somehow, conveniently forgets the picture of him smiling while wearing a necklace of severed human hands.  (are we supposed to pretend that never happened?)


Thousands of Americans were killed there, they didn't detain someone like that just because they were a common soldier.  This is not a little angel who did, "one" thing wrong, that's the presses version to placate the masses. 

Far as the lawyer, I agree there's a difference between doing their job to represent a client under our current law and offering their services pro bono to such a case while derisively insulting our country for personal press exposure.  The second example I believe meet's the definition of, "scummy".

Marmot I think you're buying into this, "poor child soldier" thinking.  You may want to do some real research on what these, "child soldiers" have been and are doing in Africa.  The press has been using that term to create sympathy.  Simple fact is the enemy who wants to kill you is the enemy.  It appears if you want a force to commit unbelievable attrocities with no remorse whatsoever, child soldiers are the way to go.  Closing your eyes and clicking your heels together while wishing with all your might won't change that, and if the US detained khadr, there was a reason;  that they don't tell us that reason makes no difference.  The war is still going on.

Wrong wrong and wrong.

Yes hitler youth were killed but those that were captured were generally seperated from the adult populace when possible and rehabilitated.
Quite a few later emigrated to the west and served us in the military or simply became good Canadians.
Of those that served us many were noted to be outstanding soldiers.
Not all Hitler youth were fighting in defence of their nation either.... The Dutch ones for instance.

What is your experience with child soldiers Sir?
I admit thst mine is limited having encountered them on only 3 continents over a 3 decade career.

Thecwar goes on?
Gee I thought we were done fighting in Afghanistan....

 
Finally if you cannot understand the fundimental and logistical differences between an adult running off to join the enemy and a 13 year old delivered and then pressed into service by his father and left with no realistic way to escape that circumstance... Further debate is hopeless.

I suppose the advantage I have is that i have had kids point machine guns at me then seen those same kids when removed from those circumstance enrolled into rehabilitation programs. As demonstrated here most adults... Once convinced of something tend to be unmoving in their view but kids tend malleable and can be swayed.
Think of yourself at that age...
I am sure that your feeling on many issues have changed significantly since your mid-teens but that they are unlikely to change much now.

I understand that he is Canadas first shame and people tend to see him a some sort of symbol od betrayal but we shame ourselves by not rising above the dogma and doung what we committed to do as a nation.
It will be interesting to see what we do when real traitors...fully responsible for their adult decisions start trying to come home. As I understand it... Quite a few have already had a change of heart but are now trapped by their decission.
In their case...too bad....they chose... Khadr had someone choose for him.

Anyway... Interesting but tired topic of debate.
Everything worth saying probably has been said....at least by me.
Khadr will either make the news of become a side note.

A bit of a derail to I suppose...
I think the original question was generalist asking why we tend to hate lawyers.

My belief is because lawyers so often benefit through the misfortune of others.
Their bread and butter is others losses, tragedies, pain and suffering.
They do the things that we find too distasteful to do ourselves.
People resent lawyers the same way and for the same reasons that they often treat soldiers with distain when the war is over.
They do our bidding but become repugnant when no longer immediatley required.

[Marmot]

Just a side thought maybe the reason we struggle with this is because the concept of the boy soldier is unknown to us now.
The last that I knew retired in about 1990 or so after 35 years of regular adult service.

Perhaps militaries and nations that maintained boy soldiers etc as we did in the past... Were better prepared to deal with the boy soldiers of their enemies than we are now.

There would have most certainly been a better general understanding that is now relegated to experts and those with singular unique experiences.

Just a thought to chew on...i dont expect it to sway anyone.

Sorry for the adddition to the long winded post above....lol

Thanks for keeping it civil.... An achievement that the other forum should envy.

[Walleyes]

One has to remember what precedence will be set here. Will this come to be common practice in the near future. They will start to train youth soldiers on our soil, send them over seas to do the dirty work or worse yet carry out their work on home soil only to be treated as a poor little child soldiers.

Sooner or later the message has to be passéd along that this is not acceptable at any age, and regardless of age you will be punished. Has this man been rehabilitated ?? I don't know, he acts like he has been but in the end we will never know. For me it's not worth the chance. Lock him up,, throw the key away,, he killed and that's the facts we do know..

[Sonny]

I think Elizabeth May had a few to many drinks...lol

http://globalnews.ca/news/1990359/green-party-leader-elizabeth-may-drops-f-bomb-during-press-gallery-dinner-speech/?hootPostID=53c2ee93c8be7b3105a24321ace100da

“Omar Khadr, you’ve got more class than the whole f—-ing cabinet,” she said, referring to the Conservative party, before being escorted off the stage by Transport Minister Lisa Raitt.

[Marmot]

I think Elizabeth May had a few to many drinks...lol


http://globalnews.ca/news/1990359/green-party-leader-elizabeth-may-drops-f-bomb-during-press-gallery-dinner-speech/?hootPostID=53c2ee93c8be7b3105a24321ace100da

Did she ever...lol

Well... At least we know she is pro gun having shot herself in the foot.
Stupid from the get go.... Wrong venue for that sort of dis ussion and pissed a a newt....

Its already costing her big time.... She is on radio right now trying to explain herself by saying she was trying to be funny by acting like a personality opposite to her own.

Then, a chain of other things...tired...over worked etc.

Sounds like she has excuses but no reasons.

[AxeMan]

Wow, what a nut!
If she wasn't drunk, she should start drinking....a lot.

[AxeMan]

And the story unfolds as we knew it would.....sickening!

"American widow, former soldier move to finalize civil suit against Omar Khadr"
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/american-widow-former-soldier-move-to-finalize-civil-suit-against-omar-khadr-1.2378118

So now the family of the murdered American soldier is suing Khadr for US$134.1 million.
They actually have a case since Khadr was not acting as a soldier when he murdered Chris Speer.  The stupid Canadian courts have upheld all that.  They ruled he was a Canadian and he was not acting as a soldier in a war but he did admit to the murder and Canada accepted this criminal traitor back on our soil as a Canadian citizen as well and have now set him free.  That is all that is needed now for this civil suit to be processed.
"Canadian courts do routinely enforce American judgments and it's not clear what grounds there might be to resist such enforcement."  From the article.

Khadr is broke of course, but he will sue the Government and suck the money out of us.
"While Khadr is essentially penniless, having spent almost 13 years behind bars before finally being released on bail earlier this month, he is in the process of suing the federal government for $20 million for alleged violations of his civil rights." Also from the article.

This is why I am so pissed at our country and our parasite lawyers trying to uphold all this civil rights stuff when the actual circumstances are clearly beyond immoral and wrong.  Fact is that it will cost us millions for this murderous piece of shit family hiding out in Canada carrying out their fanatical religious based terrorism.

Marmot and other Canadians like Elizabeth May may make claims like: "Distasteful? Yup.
But you either believe in the rule of law...rights....treaties or.... You find yourself having more in common with your enemies than its comfortable to admit."

I am not buying into statements like that.  That is a foolish twist of what our constitution and laws were set out to mean.  Surely we should be able to distinguish the difference between upholding our laws and civil rights and protecting proven murderous terrorists who will now make a mockery of these civil rights and sue us on those grounds.  Like Walleyes said, what is stopping this from becoming a precedent in Canadian law now and turning Canada into a breeding ground for radical Islamic youth soldiers on our soil?  What is the penalty: 13 years in a cushy Canadian jail followed by a multi-million dollar payout for their trouble on our behalf?