So why is the velocity number there??? why is it they post when the bullet is at is magic velocity.. So the bullet does its job. Exspanding to its max potential to transfer all or the max energy to create the biggest wound channel possible to shut down organs asap.

So your velocity number is only one part of the equation. They don't need to confuse you with all of that. They just state were there bullet preforms best to do the job.

You are only rite to an exstent.  Also Jimmy is a great guy that has forgot more than most know.

I see we are still having some difficulty with this. 45ACP vs 9mm in people? WTF?

This is as simple as I can make it.
A fella hits a block of balistic gel as hard as he can with a baseball bat. That action creates both velocity, and energy. In fact, the blow delivers a pile of energy to the block. The reslut is that the gel block deforms, and shakes, and returns to much of it original shape.
Now, launch a screwdriver, at the same velocity as the baseball bat, at that same piece of gel. This action also creates both velocity and energy. The screwdriver will pentrate the gel, and velocity will create a wound channel, and deform the gel. The result will appear fairly grusome, as the screwdriver will be burried completly in the gel.
Think of it this way: Velocity creates the wound channel. Energy deterimines how deep it goes, as does bullet type, construction, etc. The two are realated, but not linear. In a hunting sense, I can make up for a lack of energy, by shooting a lighter bullet, faster. This is the entire concept behind Barnes, and other solid copper bullets.
There are reasons why militaries selected the lighter, faster 5.56 round over the slower, heavier .308 round. The main one was the effectivness of the increased velocity at creating massive wound channels.
Another was just actual weight savings, meaning more ammunition could be carried.
Bullets companies publish a window at which their bullets will perform. Lets use a Nosler Accubond. Nosler does not list a Maximum number, so that really tells us that in the weights that are availible, it can't be pushed fast enough to fail. The minimum is listed at 1800fps. A quick refernece to my known (measured) velocity tells me that the bullet will perform out to 725 yards.
If it has enough velocity to expand, then it will have enough energy to kill. How much energy does it take to kill an animal? I don't know, and I don't care, because the velocity number tells me the bullet will work, and at what distance. It is the much easier, more dependable path to get the desired results.

R.

I see you are still missing the target.  Velocity itself is the measure of speed.  It needs a something to measure and then that something needs some mass in order to do something with the velocity.  Show me a calculation of speed, that has anything to do with energy?Some mass in motion with some velocity then has some kinetic energy.

If the something is a bullet and the velocity is 2800 ft/sec cased by the bullet being shot from a gun then there is kinetic energy with it. (lets call it foot/pounds of energy)  When that hits ... lets say an apple then the energy is imparted to the apple as the bullet makes a hole through the apple. It is not energy alone that puts the hole in the apple, it is the speed at which that energy is delivered. I can put just as much, and more energy on that same apple as that bullet does, and never manage to put a hole in it.


To say it is all or only velocity is like saying a car is all about its engine and the transmission and wheels are not important. Bulldozers deliver a lot of energy, but I don't see them winning very many Formula 1 races

Just for "fun" see below:


Again, usings facts and figures, please feel free to prove me wrong. More importantly, put your mind right, and try and learn something that will only help you understand better what exactly is happening when you pull a trigger.

R.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you,, YOU, are arguing with me. You don't understand what I am trying to explain. I can't draw you crayon pictures to explain it to you. You have to READwell other than the intense conversation you are having with yourself.. I thought I was talking to you?Some are just trying to explain to you,, they are tied together,, you can't have one without the other. I have already said this, several times. Yes, they are related, but not how you think. Also, there is zero energy in calculating speed. NONE. There is however, a speed caculation for energyAgain,, energy creates the velocity Energy does not create speed, speed creates the energyand in the end the velocity delivers that energy to the intended target. Just the velocity on its own does nothing in the end it's the energy created by that velocity that killsThis, is wrong. Think of it this way, speed does the killing, energy determines how dead stuff gets. Again,, what has more energy a 22-250 at 4000 fps or 300 rum at 3200 fps.. Did you read the example of the bat and screwdriver? The RUM has more energy, yet it will not punch a hole in the steel plate, as shown. Yet the 22-250 will. This is esentially why speed is far more important than energySee the velocity does nothing on its own it has to be applied to some mass which in turn delivers the energy. The more mass combined with the velocity Again, you have it backwards. The more speed that is appiled, the more energy can be createdcreates more deliverable energy.. Depending on the surface area, sometimes less is more, this is one of those times.Again one is nothing without the other. You are correct, almost. I can make energy with speed, I can't make speed with energy

But I'm done with this one you are starting to take this one sideways,, too bad it was a good topic..

"Again, usings facts and figures, please feel free to prove me wrong." - See more at: http://albertasportsman.com/alberta-guns-and-shooting/energy-and-what-it-does-to-game/msg25290/#new
You are starting to sound like Justin, you have a "radical opinion" and you demand that we "prove you wrong".

anyone with opposing thumbs,

Those of us with opposable thumbs know that having opposing thumbs would not be normal.

Elk Cartridges

By Chuck Hawks

A generality is that around 1200 ft. lbs. of energy on target is necessary for humane elk kills. I think that bullet placement is much more important than kinetic energy, but this can serve as a rough guide to the maximum range at which a given load should be used.

You better get in touch with Chuck and tell him that velocity kills and energy is not a big factor.  It is velocity that creates the wound channel, not energy. See one of your statements above.- See more at: http://albertasportsman.com/alberta-guns-and-shooting/energy-and-what-it-does-to-game/msg25290/#new


I don't see any relevance in you questions about the exact amount of energy for the exact weight of the animal you are shooting so I will not bother commenting.