Like I said,,this was a great topic until it had to be drug down with the name calling a degrading remarks.. That's what happens when people get there back against the wall and have no way out..

Later J.R.

lmao.

One of the few times I have agreed with you, I lmao when I read some of his recent posts too.

You can always tell when a person has run out of valid points in a discussion when they just start to insult people and forget about the issue at hand.

One of the few times I have agreed with you, I lmao when I read some of his recent posts too.

You can always tell when a person has run out of valid points in a discussion when they just start to insult people and forget about the issue at hand.

Ummm, fairly sure he is laughing at you, not with you.
What valid points have you raised? What math can you provide that proves your point?
Your ignorance and stupidity truly knows no boundaries.
Be a twit, and get treated as such. You really should expect nothing less. Go back and ride your desk some more, at least its fairly safe there.
R.

Ummm, fairly sure he is laughing at you, not with you.
What valid points have you raised? What math can you provide that proves your point?
Your ignorance and stupidity truly knows no boundaries.
Be a twit, and get treated as such. You really should expect nothing less. Go back and ride your desk some more, at least its fairly safe there.
R.

Oh, are you sure?  I thought it was obvious he was laughing out loud at your posts that he quoted.  Seemed to make sense.

As I said it looks like you have run out of intelligent things to bring to the table and have just decided all there is left is to insult fellow board members.

Deerman I wish I had a copy of all the Google searches you have typed in to try and save your ass. 

Some time back on "that other board" there was quite a discussion about "what energy of a bullet has to do with killing game."

A certain knowledgable hunter had some pretty strong opinions on the subject.  Now I see an article in "The Outdoor Edge" about the sunject.

"WHAT'S ENERGY GOT TO DO WITH IT"

I think he makes some valid points but at the same time over looks some things.  Perhaps he has talked to some folks who were convinced that energy was the only thing that mattered and it is what killed game.  Which I think is wrong.  However to over simplify things and suggest that "killing is still done by nothing but mechanical means" is also wrong.


Just thought I'd start a thread to talk about what we think or understand about what a bullet does inside game and how that results in killing and recovering game.

If you disagree with any views expressed on here there is no need to go beyond the difference of opinion to personal comments.  And if you know the article and author there is no need to make personal comments about them.

Actually I wanted a civilized discussion as you can see from the original thread.


when you started this thread you wanted a heated debate and you have it buy the looks of it. - See more at: http://albertasportsman.com/index.php?action=post;quote=23484;topic=3544.0#sthash.DxKpaBfj.dpuf

I sure was not asking for or wishing for the mud flinging that some have stooped to.

Deerman I wish I had a copy of all the Google searches you have typed in to try and save your ass.  - See more at: http://albertasportsman.com/index.php?action=post;quote=23484;topic=3544.0#sthash.DxKpaBfj.dpuf

Oh! I wish you would point out a few of those???
I didn't realize there was any need to "save my ass".

I'll make it very simple for everyone. As I stated the mass of the object plus it's speed creates the energy to say they are not related is insane. I stated back in post #77 that if we increase the mass combined with the speed we get more energy, i was asked to prove it, I was called an idiot. Here is a link to a formula for figuring out kinetic energy. Go ahead put in the numbers for a 22-250 and the numbers for a 300 rum you tell me does the mass of a projectile have nothing to do with energy. Is it speed alone that creates energy,, i have looked up many formulas for energy, they all combine both mass and velocity. again one is nothing without the other. Using these formulas we can see that a 40 grain bullet fired at 4000 fps has just over 1400 ftlbs energy. now we take a 180 grain fired at 3200 fps we have just over 4000 ftlbs energy. Which  one would you pack going for grizzly.

http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

More lack of reading comprehension I see.
I said several times that they are related. I also said just not the way you thought. I think you should know a few things about what you are trying to explain.
The first thing is Newton's Law. We discussed it before. If it was energy that did all the killing, like you and what's his nuts have said before, you would be dead everytime you pulled the trigger. The recoil you feel, is the same amount of energy that the bullet has to work with. No more, no less. There is no free lunch.
The second thing is energy number itself. Look at the units that you are quoting for muzzle energy. Ft pounds force. There is no speed, or time there. It is a stactic measurement. The definition is as follows: It is the energy transferred on applying a force of one pound-force (lbf) through a displacement of one foot. Again, no time, and no speed. Speed is used to calculate the energy, but the unit itself is static.
The third thing: In order for something to happen, it must move. In order for it to move, it must either affect speed, or time. I can convert the energy above to many different things, but none of them are a linear coversion, again, as I said earlier. An example is 1 horspower = 550lb ft/s. See the little s under the lb ft? That stands for second. That definition is the same as above, but with the addition of time: It is the energy transferred on applying a force of one pound-force (lbf) through a displacement of one foot, in one second. Now we have something we all understand, but the problem is, it doesn't apply to the precious energy number you are trying grasp. I can convert foot pounds to watts per hour to better illustrate this. "A 1 watt light bulb uses 1 watt of power in a period of one hour or 1 watt in one minute or 1 watt in one second or 1 watt during any period of time". The point is that the work, or energy, can be expended over any period of time. Incedently, 4000 foot pounds equals 1 Watt Hour. So, to really put into perpective your rifle generates 1 watt hour at the muzzle. That doesn't really apply to killing something, does it?
I said in my first post, the energy number does not really mean anything, and to use it as refference towards killing effectiveness is a difficult road.
In closing, I will even refer to your favorite resource, Chuckles Hawks, King of the Do Nothing Couch Riders. Here is what Chuckles' site has to say about using muzzle energy numbers to determine killing effectiveness:

"Prior to the introduction of magnum cartridges, muzzle energy was not the hot topic of conversation that it is today. In fact, many riflemen of the era didn't even know what it was while others, who knew what it was, dismissed it as unimportant.

Writing in 1948, the famed African poacher and remittance man John "Pondoro" Taylor stated that energy was "Surely the most misleading thing in the world where rifles are concerned. Gunsmiths invariably quote it because, particularly since the advent of the Magnum, it is decidedly flattering to their weapon.""

"Today's shooters are lead to believe that energy is the main determinant of some mythical "knock down" power and often fail to take bullet weight, design, sectional density and, most importantly, proper placement into account. Of course nothing could be further from the truth."

"While energy calculations may be of value when comparing various loads in a single caliber or similar calibers, they can be worse than useless when comparing different calibers and different hunting situations."

"...point out that fallacy of using muzzle energy, or any other purely theoretical consideration, as some kind of be all and end all when it comes to killing power."

Ouch! Right from King Chuckles' Site, too. See, I didn't have to explain to Chuckles how useless muzzle energy really is, because even his stupid ass already knew.

Ding DONG, MF'er. Ding DONG!!!!

R.

I have a question  ?

 I have a microwave. If I leave the door open and the micro on high how long will it take to kill a moose?

Hey!  Your ability as a comedian far surpasses your ability to understand what a bullet dose and to explain what you are thinking.

Now I have to go back and "hit some bricks"again.  Its kind of fun.