Author Topic: archery mule draw  (Read 6926 times)

ishootbambi

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archery mule draw
« on: December 15, 2012, 02:45:04 AM »
as you have heard im sure....generqal archery mule deer will be going to a draw in some wmus next year.  i have no trouble believing that archers are over 15% harvest in some zones....but the way they calculate the 15% leaves a lot more zones open to argument.  here is how they do it....


For 2011, there were 58,924 completed surveys for all licence types, which was 26% of all licences purchased (222,957 in total).*

In regards specifically to the “General Mule Deer licence” (the licence used during the archery only season for antlered mule deer), 4,183 people responded to the survey for this licence type. There were a total of 14,501 licences sold, meaning 29% of hunters who purchased this licence responded to the survey.

Using the survey results and the actual harvest numbers, the estimated harvest for each WMU is determined. From these numbers and the response of hunters to the questions regarding the weapon used, the archery harvest is estimated. If the survey results have a low sample size, the results are taken with a grain of salt and their accuracy is questionable. For the purpose of determining the archery harvest and allocation of antlered mule deer harvest for bow hunters, SRD only looks at the number of antlered mule deer harvested by the General Mule Deer Licence during the archery only season. Bowhunters who harvested a mule deer under the authority of a Special Licence obtained in the draw process are not counted as part of the general mule deer harvest for this analysis.


. Data is for the 2011 hunting season and is for WMUs 108, 208 and 357. Harvest is only for bow hunter kills during the archery only season and does not take into account youth bow hunter harvest (which occurred in all zones). Estimated total harvest includes bow hunter harvest from General and Youth Licences, Special Licences (the draw) and Landowner Licences.


WMU Bowhunter
Respondent
Per WMU Estimated
Bowhunters Reported Antlered
MUDE Bhtr Harvest Est Bow hunter Harvest Est Total Harvest Est % Bow Hunter Harvest
108 64 222 14 49 157 31.2
208 58 201 10 35 85 41.2
357 54 187 6 21 66 31.8

In calculating the numbers (using the stats from WMU 108 as an example), the 64 bowhunters who responded on the game harvest survey who had a general mule deer tag is divided by the total of 4,183 people who responded (all bowhunters, and rifle hunters who had the general mule deer tag). This (1.53 % or .0153) is the actual percentage of hunters with this licence who bowhunted in WMU 108. This is then multiplied by the overall number of hunters who bought a general mule deer license (.0153 x 14501) to come up with the estimated number of bowhunters who bowhunted WMU 108 (222). To estimate the bowhunter harvest, the actual reported bowhunter harvest (14) is divided by the total bowhunter respondents (64) and this (.22 or 22%) is then multiplied by the estimated number of bowhunters (222 from calculation above) to get the estimated bowhunter harvest of 49 buck mule deer. This is then divided into the overall estimated harvest (includes bow hunter harvest from General and Youth Licences, Special Licences (the draw) and Landowner Licences)(49/157)(calculated using the same type of formulas) to determine the estimated bowhunter harvest (which is limited to 15% as per current policy – bowhunters account for app 15% of the overall hunting population).




now, as i said, this is a summary of the complete report that will be in the upcoming ABA newsletter. thanks to the ABA for allowing me to present the data early here to AS. for a full report, be sure to join the ABA to keep up to date on this and other important issues concerning archery hunting in alberta. if you are a bowhunter in this province, it really is in your best interest to belong to this organization to have your voice heard.


****edit*** the numbers in the chart didnt translate in chart form, so read that part closely to decipher the info.
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ishootbambi

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 02:47:56 AM »
i have been told that at the latest AGMAG meeting, srd has come up with this list of wmus to go to draw next year......


For 2013, archers will need the draw to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in the following WMUs – this is a direct result of the trend where bowhunters harvested more than our 15% share (according to the harvest surveys).

100 WMU Series- 104, 108, 110, 130, 132, 134, 138, 140 and 156

200 WMU Series- 206, 208, 210, 214, 216, 220, 221, 222, 224 and 226

300 WMU series – 300, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308 314, 318, 320, 322, 324, 332, 337, 357, 358, 359 and 360

400 WMU Series – 400 and 402

500 WMU Series - 502, 504, 506, 509, 510, 521, 522, 523, 526 and 527
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BruceW

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 07:52:53 AM »
To be fair, I think the largest issue facing srd(well, it's not even srd anymore is it?);  is a lack of budget. 

That being said, if they switched from the current trendy helicopters back to fixed wing they could have minimum 5-7 times more hours in the air doing gamecounts.  Helicopters fill a niche role, but are incredibly expensive to operate.  No one uses a helicopter if a fixed wing can do the job, well, except government.  (I flew gamecounts in the late 70's/early 80's occasionally in the porcupines and across S. AB.

Far as the archery draw, I think it's about time.  Pick a wmu and a season.  No more one tag good from Aug. to Dec., switching sex and weapons with the calender. 

Lot's complain about priority wait times, well, putting archery on draw and making hunters choose will help reduce some of the demand for rifle tags.  'Least, that's how I see it.

I Do agree with the statements about outfitter tags.  Landowner tags are kind of a touchy subject though.  Despite being able to, I've never gotten a landowner tag.  I just take my turn like everyone else.  Others don't see it like that.  I have no suggestion that might help with a solution here.

Guido

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »
In the zones where i hunt, that are on that list, i have seen more mule deer then ever. I don't see ANY justification for an archery draw. If anything, more rifle tags should be given out.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 09:41:39 AM by Guido »

Weste

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 09:54:16 AM »
Agree with Justin on this one.  As of right now, it is not a seperate draw and the tags will be the same as the rifle.  I sit on the ABA Mule Deer committee and we were told that the computer system couldnt handle it being a seperate draw right now but will be set up in future years (probably 2 years from now).  Seems like a bullshit answer to me, They have plenty of time to update the system before the next draw dates.

This is the summary of the response from SRD.

Separate archery draw regime – we presented strong arguments to implement a separate archery draw for antlered mule deer (and broaden that to other species/WMUs where you now need a draw to bowhunt them in archery seasons).  We have preliminary support from some stakeholders for this idea.  The current proposal suggests bowhunters will enter the general draw pool.  The idea for a separate draw cannot happen for two years as the current draw system contract is almost up and tenders have been sent to two companies to rework/update the system.

BruceW

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 11:28:20 AM »
The biggest problem is there will be no archery draw.   So until there is an archery draw by itself just like antelope there is no archery anything in there zones they have chosen.

Ahh, OK, I misunderstood, or misread, I thought the idea was to Have a situation similar to the antelope draws.

JIMMY 808

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 01:29:22 PM »
So some bow hunter shot a MD in zone 132 that would be over 15% would it not Justin?  If the bow hunters are treated the same as rilfe hunters with the draws I want to be able to use my rifle in the end of August. 

JIMMY 808

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 02:31:57 PM »
Well all 130 zones have not Bren counted in over 5 years. Numbers are way better than tag numbers. But if a zone has that little deer no one should be shooting them.   I don't understand your second half your post. What are you saying? Cause you want to use a gun over a bow that gives you more rights than a guy with a bow??  SRD said 15% not me. So if rifle hunters get all tags and no separate draw for archery that sure as he'll is not 15%.

  Guess what I am trying to say is having the same number of tags available to both bow hunters and rilfe
Hunters is a bad idea.   

NBFK

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 02:57:52 PM »
I wish more guys would join some of the local organizations and clubs so voices can be heard. For 35 dollars a year you can be an aba member and have your voice heard about issues like this. Like Rick said the aba created a mule deer committee so archers voices can be heard. I hope that with these draw zones that the gun guys have to wait until the opening of general season before they can  let the lead fly. This way the guys who still want to pull a tag and bowhunt can without the competition of rifle guys.
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Pottymouth

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 12:19:37 PM »
So some bow hunter shot a MD in zone 132 that would be over 15% would it not Justin?  If the bow hunters are treated the same as rilfe hunters with the draws I want to be able to use my rifle in the end of August.

While were at it, horses shouldn't be allowed in the 400 zones.

BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 08:40:02 AM »
One person quoted on this thread "fair is fair". Therefore, I believe fair is that everyone plays on the same playing field, no exceptions. Bowhunters, rifle hunters, landowners and oufitters should be all in the same pot in the priority system.................now that's fair!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 08:41:54 AM by BuckTracker »

Tradbhtr

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 07:58:31 PM »
Was reading this thread and there is some info posted from the ABA reports we have sent out to our members to help them understand this issue/see how the numbers are arrived at and the formulas used.  The ABA has been very involved in this issue (and many others) over the last bunch of years.  Reps attend meetings with ESRD senior staff, local bios, other stakeholders (AGMAG, HFT). 
From reading the comments from JustinC I can sense his frustration.  I think that frustration is shared by many bowhunters.  The best way to deal with that frustration is to get the facts, become informed.  That is what we/the ABA set out to do. I am sure JustinC is not an ABA member because many of his thoughts on the issue would change once he got the facts.  For anyone wanting the full detailed reports on this issue, just send me an email (bcwatson@telusplanet.net) and I will forward them on.
I will try and clarify some points made:

1)  This issue is about harvest share of antlered mule deer. Has nothing to do about deer populations/deer numbers.  The responses to the online harvest surveys and these results are used to determine bowhunter harvests, general tag and draw harvest etc.  There has been lots of discussion as to the accuracy of these numbers and we have tried to express those concerns.
2)  Bowhtr numbers have gone from 10000 to 17000 in the last 10 years.  Our effectiveness as hunters has also gone up with the new technology in equipment, the info available via the internet, DVDs, TV.  We are better hunters, there are more of us in the field.  Our harvest rate will go up even though our success rate may stay fairly constant just due to the fact there are more of us in the field.  Once we hit 15% harvest share, we are looked at and if the trend is consistant for a number of years, we will be put on draw.
3)  Going into the Dec 5 AGMAG  meeting there was no support from senior ESRD staff for an archery only draw regime.  after we made our presentation on the issue and discussed the need for this new idea, its merits we got preliminary support for the idea from other stakeholders.  We now have a base to work forward in hopefully making it a reality.
4)  The contract with IBM is up soon and ESRD have 2 companies giving tenders.  The new system will have lots of upgrades, be more user friendly, be able to handle more users.  No new draw codes can be done with the old system -- they tried to re-instate a Non Res  season-long waterfowl license for 2013 and the system couldnt do it.  It could take 2 years to implement any new draw codes (which would include for the archery draw regime we (the ABA) would like to see happen).
     The Alberta RELM site and the way we do our draws,  licensing etc is among the very best if not the best system in North America.  This is based on info that some stakeholders have been getting in their meetings with other agencies from other jurisdictions.  The upgarde will only make it better.  I use it and have found it to be awesome.
5) The ABA has taken the time over the last year to find out what bowhunters want.  We formed a Mule Deer Committee. We had requested feedback from our members through our mass member email list (app 1200 email addresses), in our newsletter (out to over 1000 households 4x a year), from our website.  I called all the "hunting" archery shops across the province to ask them for the thoughts of their customers.  Almost 100% of the responses show bhtrs want an archery draw -- that is the message we are taking to ESRD and the other stakeholders.
6)  For the next 2 years (and longer if there is no support for an archery draw regime), you will need to have a general draw tag to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in those affected WMUs.  The number of tags would increase slightly as the harvest share of the bowhunters would be added into the general draw.  Would be different for every WMU.  Could decrease wait times or may not -- each WMU could be different.
7)  The way I envision the archery draw to work is bowhunters would get 15% of the available harvest (based on the 15% harvest limit we have imposed now) -- WMU by WMU. The success rate of bhtrs would then determine the actual number of tags issued.  This is how the draws for other species work now.  There has been mention made that the archery draw would be given tags at a rate similar to the length of time it would take to draw in the general draw season (eg -- if it takes 6 years to draw a tag in the general draw, the bhtrs would get tags at a rate to keep them at a 6 year draw timeframe).  I don't think that is  the way to do it.  The archery draw regime would now make a hunter pick the season he wants to bowhunt in.  We had quite a few bhtrs say they would do the general draw because in lots of cases the length of season is longer (northern areas).  The areas that have their archery season in Sept/Oct would be different though.  If an archery draw is implemented, everyone would start at zero.  All the species you need a draw for to hunt in archery seasons would now have a new archery draw code.  You would only be able to hunt in the applicable archery season in a specific WMU.  You would put in for either the archery draw or the general draw -- not both.  Antelope would likely see this change.
8)  When asked at AGMAG what happens to the non-resident allocations for antlered mule deer, we were told they had ALL been pulled.  The APOS Allocation Review for the next 5 year term is underway and the current term is over Dec 31.
9)  The landowner tag issue has seen much discussion the last couple of years and everyone is aware of the need for change.  More discussions will be forthcoming and we will see what comes out of those.  Lots of abuses and the intent of this initiative has been lost a long time ago.
10)  In those WMUs that are going to this draw idea, the archery season is still in place.  You just need the draw to hunt antlered mule deer and can hunt the archery season with your bow AND the general season with whatever weapon you want.

Hopefully this has helped to get the FACTS out and help lower the level of frustration out there.  If anyone wants more detailed info I can send them the reports we have done up the last two years.  Lots of info!!
As has been mentioned, every bhtr out there should join the ABA.  We had 1700 members last year, we are at 1600 this year.  When we go to the meetings we do and can say we represent the bhtrs of Alberta with a membership of (say) 5000 out of the 17000 -- that is huge.  Numbers definately help.  By joining you can be part of the process, your voice will be heard and opinions will be taken to those that make the decisions.  A couple of quotes I live by ---  "If you are not part of the process, you are part of the problem".  "The world is run by those who show up."

Pottymouth

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 01:39:12 AM »
Was reading this thread and there is some info posted from the ABA reports we have sent out to our members to help them understand this issue/see how the numbers are arrived at and the formulas used.  The ABA has been very involved in this issue (and many others) over the last bunch of years.  Reps attend meetings with ESRD senior staff, local bios, other stakeholders (AGMAG, HFT). 
From reading the comments from JustinC I can sense his frustration.  I think that frustration is shared by many bowhunters.  The best way to deal with that frustration is to get the facts, become informed.  That is what we/the ABA set out to do. I am sure JustinC is not an ABA member because many of his thoughts on the issue would change once he got the facts.  For anyone wanting the full detailed reports on this issue, just send me an email (bcwatson@telusplanet.net) and I will forward them on.
I will try and clarify some points made:

1)  This issue is about harvest share of antlered mule deer. Has nothing to do about deer populations/deer numbers.  The responses to the online harvest surveys and these results are used to determine bowhunter harvests, general tag and draw harvest etc.  There has been lots of discussion as to the accuracy of these numbers and we have tried to express those concerns.
2)  Bowhtr numbers have gone from 10000 to 17000 in the last 10 years.  Our effectiveness as hunters has also gone up with the new technology in equipment, the info available via the internet, DVDs, TV.  We are better hunters, there are more of us in the field.  Our harvest rate will go up even though our success rate may stay fairly constant just due to the fact there are more of us in the field.  Once we hit 15% harvest share, we are looked at and if the trend is consistant for a number of years, we will be put on draw.
3)  Going into the Dec 5 AGMAG  meeting there was no support from senior ESRD staff for an archery only draw regime.  after we made our presentation on the issue and discussed the need for this new idea, its merits we got preliminary support for the idea from other stakeholders.  We now have a base to work forward in hopefully making it a reality.
4)  The contract with IBM is up soon and ESRD have 2 companies giving tenders.  The new system will have lots of upgrades, be more user friendly, be able to handle more users.  No new draw codes can be done with the old system -- they tried to re-instate a Non Res  season-long waterfowl license for 2013 and the system couldnt do it.  It could take 2 years to implement any new draw codes (which would include for the archery draw regime we (the ABA) would like to see happen).
     The Alberta RELM site and the way we do our draws,  licensing etc is among the very best if not the best system in North America.  This is based on info that some stakeholders have been getting in their meetings with other agencies from other jurisdictions.  The upgarde will only make it better.  I use it and have found it to be awesome.
5) The ABA has taken the time over the last year to find out what bowhunters want.  We formed a Mule Deer Committee. We had requested feedback from our members through our mass member email list (app 1200 email addresses), in our newsletter (out to over 1000 households 4x a year), from our website.  I called all the "hunting" archery shops across the province to ask them for the thoughts of their customers.  Almost 100% of the responses show bhtrs want an archery draw -- that is the message we are taking to ESRD and the other stakeholders.
6)  For the next 2 years (and longer if there is no support for an archery draw regime), you will need to have a general draw tag to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in those affected WMUs.  The number of tags would increase slightly as the harvest share of the bowhunters would be added into the general draw.  Would be different for every WMU.  Could decrease wait times or may not -- each WMU could be different.
7)  The way I envision the archery draw to work is bowhunters would get 15% of the available harvest (based on the 15% harvest limit we have imposed now) -- WMU by WMU. The success rate of bhtrs would then determine the actual number of tags issued.  This is how the draws for other species work now.  There has been mention made that the archery draw would be given tags at a rate similar to the length of time it would take to draw in the general draw season (eg -- if it takes 6 years to draw a tag in the general draw, the bhtrs would get tags at a rate to keep them at a 6 year draw timeframe).  I don't think that is  the way to do it.  The archery draw regime would now make a hunter pick the season he wants to bowhunt in.  We had quite a few bhtrs say they would do the general draw because in lots of cases the length of season is longer (northern areas).  The areas that have their archery season in Sept/Oct would be different though.  If an archery draw is implemented, everyone would start at zero.  All the species you need a draw for to hunt in archery seasons would now have a new archery draw code.  You would only be able to hunt in the applicable archery season in a specific WMU.  You would put in for either the archery draw or the general draw -- not both.  Antelope would likely see this change.
8)  When asked at AGMAG what happens to the non-resident allocations for antlered mule deer, we were told they had ALL been pulled.  The APOS Allocation Review for the next 5 year term is underway and the current term is over Dec 31.
9)  The landowner tag issue has seen much discussion the last couple of years and everyone is aware of the need for change.  More discussions will be forthcoming and we will see what comes out of those.  Lots of abuses and the intent of this initiative has been lost a long time ago.
10)  In those WMUs that are going to this draw idea, the archery season is still in place.  You just need the draw to hunt antlered mule deer and can hunt the archery season with your bow AND the general season with whatever weapon you want.

Hopefully this has helped to get the FACTS out and help lower the level of frustration out there.  If anyone wants more detailed info I can send them the reports we have done up the last two years.  Lots of info!!
As has been mentioned, every bhtr out there should join the ABA.  We had 1700 members last year, we are at 1600 this year.  When we go to the meetings we do and can say we represent the bhtrs of Alberta with a membership of (say) 5000 out of the 17000 -- that is huge.  Numbers definately help.  By joining you can be part of the process, your voice will be heard and opinions will be taken to those that make the decisions.  A couple of quotes I live by ---  "If you are not part of the process, you are part of the problem".  "The world is run by those who show up."

This just my opinion!


There’s absolutely no way that they can accept a voluntary survey, as factual none bias information. You would need a mandatory game harvest, and perhaps registration, to be able to qualify their proposal.

Why would 15% be the cap number for bow hunters? Especially when Bow hunters are already closer to 16 %? If anything, the more bow hunters in the field, the bigger the % should be. Reducing Rifle tags would only make sense. If success rate stays primarily consistent and only harvest rate will increase due to increase in population, as you say. This again would lead me to believe, that, as bow hunting popularity grows, and more opportunity should be considered for bow hunting, not taking it away!

It comes with no surprise that the other stake holders would embrace a separate archery draw. They have nothing to lose. Actually having the biggest archery organization, roll over so easily, made everyone’s life that much easier. I don’t understand why you would even propose such a thing. When they are using flawed data, accepting any draw, wouldn’t be in the best interest of bow hunters.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Watching the 2 Alberta forums and talking to Bow hunters first hand in archery shops and stores, I don’t believe 100% guys want a draw.  Guys want better information; they want landowner tags under control, especially when landowner tags are unlimited.  We want outfitter tags revoked, much like Saskatchewan. Why should we all have to pay the price, for the Cwd cull fiasco?  How do you negotiate a draw, knowing that? I hope your right and all the Outfitter allocations for Mule deer have been pulled. But wouldn't that be enough, not to put archery on draw?

What is the number that Esrd wants to achieve, with regards to harvest numbers? While taking to account Landowners, Outfitters, Hunters, Predators, Vehicles, Native harvest and disease? Is Putting Archery on draw, going to equate to those numbers actually balancing? By proposing that, I’ll assume that the number they are trying to rectify, is so minor, that there are numerous other possibilities that could lower the harvest rate, without taking away huge Albertan opportunity.

I understand that The ABA has a difficult task ahead of them. But I would like to see more fight from the biggest archery interest group. “ what you do today, will echo for eternity .“ I’m tired of hearing old timers talk about the good old days. I don’t want to be that guy, I’d rather talk about the man who stood up against a giant and saved bow hunting.  That also goes for the Sheep hunting B.S proposals!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 01:41:26 AM by Pottymouth »

BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 05:40:25 AM »
Ya fair is you hunting with a bow and me with my rifle. What are you good to 50 yards??  I know I am good to 1000.  Is that fair?  Why should You or I be grouped with the other??   They say there is to be 15% harvest for archers. Well giving 15% and putting it in with the others is taking about 30% opportunity away from every hunter period.  Also wait times witch are a joke already do to over abundance of outfitter and landowner tags.  Also if they put it in one draw there is no more archey tags in our province.  That means we have 100% rifle tags. Which maybe one in 20 years will use it during an archery hunt. So I am and everybody should be avaunt this shit. Most of there info is flawed.  I will post a link to a post that gives all info that makes it very clear that this is also another ploy to get rid of Albertans so more land owners and outfitters have less competition. 

Page 9 deer hunter posts all the stats of were all tags are really going.  And who is really mismanaging our herds.  http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=159850&page=9
I'm a rifle hunter only and have been waiting for 8 years to receive my mule buck draw. I think bow hunters, outfitters and landowners had a good kick at the cat over the years and it's time that the playing field becomes more even. I have spoken to wildlife biologists and they concur that the system is unjust, especially with landowners and outfitters having special status with mule deer bucks. I don't blame wildlife employee's in the field, they are only taking orders from the higher-ups and pressure from special groups such as people in agriculture and Fish and Game Clubs.
Every year there are changes in the hunting regulations to better manage wildlife and to give hunting opportunities. If I don't get drawn in 2013 for mule deer buck, well than I can live with that because there are many other species to hunt in Alberta. I generally look at life in general that way (ie: look what you have instead of what you don't have/ the cup is half full).     
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 05:41:58 AM by BuckTracker »

Pottymouth

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 09:18:45 AM »
I'm a rifle hunter only and have been waiting for 8 years to receive my mule buck draw. I think bow hunters, outfitters and landowners had a good kick at the cat over the years and it's time that the playing field becomes more even. I have spoken to wildlife biologists and they concur that the system is unjust, especially with landowners and outfitters having special status with mule deer bucks. I don't blame wildlife employee's in the field, they are only taking orders from the higher-ups and pressure from special groups such as people in agriculture and Fish and Game Clubs.
Every year there are changes in the hunting regulations to better manage wildlife and to give hunting opportunities. If I don't get drawn in 2013 for mule deer buck, well than I can live with that because there are many other species to hunt in Alberta. I generally look at life in general that way (ie: look what you have instead of what you don't have/ the cup is half full).     

Seriously you waited 8 years for your draw ! Well your just plain dumb then, nothing stopping from hunting every year, but yourself. When your mom stopped cutting up your food, who long did you wait to pick up a fork? You want an even playing field? Again no one stopping from joining the ranks, like everyone else did. Do you actually think that the majority of bowhunters only are archers, or was it a steady slow migration! Unless the regs have a rule why you can't bowhunt, there no reason to say there isn't a even playing field. I'm tired of rifle guys and their excuses. If they opened a hunting season for rope....guess what, guys would buy a rope and learn to hunt with it! well at least the ones that love hunting!



BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 09:31:10 AM »
Seriously you waited 8 years for your draw ! Well your just plain dumb then, nothing stopping from hunting every year, but yourself. When your mom stopped cutting up your food, who long did you wait to pick up a fork? You want an even playing field? Again no one stopping from joining the ranks, like everyone else did. Do you actually think that the majority of bowhunters only are archers, or was it a steady slow migration! Unless the regs have a rule why you can't bowhunt, there no reason to say there isn't a even playing field. I'm tired of rifle guys and their excuses. If they opened a hunting season for rope....guess what, guys would buy a rope and learn to hunt with it! well at least the ones that love hunting!
I think that you misunderstood what I said. I'm not really complaing, just happy that the playing field will be at an even situation. It really dosen't bother me that I don't get picked for mule deer buck, heck I could go north an hunt them with a general tag while I'm hunting whitetails. Like I said before, my glass is half full and have other species to hunt...............I'm thankful, are you? I'm just thankful that Alberta has mule deer hunting, where most provinces and territiories don't. I've killed mule deer and been on many mule deer kills and will probably will again in the future with my rifle.
 
Final note: note complaining, only content that the playing field "might" be fair this coming hunting season. :)

Pottymouth

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 10:16:23 AM »
I think that you misunderstood what I said. I'm not really complaing, just happy that the playing field will be at an even situation. It really dosen't bother me that I don't get picked for mule deer buck, heck I could go north an hunt them with a general tag while I'm hunting whitetails. Like I said before, my glass is half full and have other species to hunt...............I'm thankful, are you? I'm just thankful that Alberta has mule deer hunting, where most provinces and territiories don't. I've killed mule deer and been on many mule deer kills and will probably will again in the future with my rifle.
 
Final note: note complaining, only content that the playing field "might" be fair this coming hunting season. :)

It's always been fair ! I don't understand why you can't see that. Equal opportunity already exists . If you want an even playing field, limit rifle shots to 40 yards, then I would agree that everything should be even.

BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 11:39:47 AM »
Well I am going to lobby to get rid of all general rifle mule tags in this province as there should be no general rifle tags for mule deer.  You want to play those games??  That is all you are doing.  Poor me is all you are saying again like 98% of people that are for this. Like I said in my last post.  Everybody looses opportunity and wait times will go through the roof.  Great ideas guys.
Like I said, "I'm not complaining". What game am I playing? I have waited 8 years already and I guess that I can wait a little while longer.............. I have patience, and it is a virtue for a hunter.
Hmmmmmm, 98% are for this, "that bow hunters are required to draw for mule deer", well I guess that majority rules. Good luck on your lobby endeavors, but I don't think that it will pass through legislation, let along the burcaucracy.     

BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 11:47:40 AM »
It's always been fair ! I don't understand why you can't see that. Equal opportunity already exists . If you want an even playing field, limit rifle shots to 40 yards, then I would agree that everything should be even.
It's not fair if a person wants to hunt with a rifle only............... it helps limit the percentage of  wounding a deer with an arrow. Rifle shots at 40? Not happening! Get in the draw system and choose your weapon..........it's that simple. ;)

BuckTracker

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Re: archery mule draw
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 12:15:59 PM »
What are you waiting so long to draw in your zone?  I cam tell you were to draw with a priority 3 and I bet you can shoot a 200"+ deer.  So why is it you apply in a zone that takes do long??   Let's get the real facts on this.  I know why.
I know the reasons. Low deer count, outfitters and landowners have special status. Government won't touch these people, not yet anyway. Therefore, the bowhunter will get the brunt/short end of the stick......no pun intended. Government will go to the weakest link to solve a problem and it looks like the bowhunters will have to obsorb it. Now, tell me what you know?