I'll wait for your statistical count numbers showing the population increases you quote and the reductions in CWD cases you state.

I know little about CWD but everything I can come up with shows that no one has a handle onto how to control things and that even the areas that have had the longest testing and management aren't doing much better than Alberta.

darcy, if you read the link you provided, you will see the population drop you mentioned is 430000 animals down to 418000.  that was over one year, and determined largely to be a habitat issue according to your article.  i dont have the desire to rehash this crap with the same stubborn pair that refuse to read the links they themselves provide, but if you really want to see it, this thread has everything you need to know. 


http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=158816&highlight=colorado+mule+deer+numbers


youll see the longer term numbers showing a 2002 population in colorado of around 250000 mule deer.  so....down over one year yes, but up over historical numbers.  them darn stats showing whatever you want them to again.... speck and duff love to try that manipulation. 

you couldnt be more right that nobody knows the best way to deal with cwd, but culls have been proven to be an epic failure in every jurisdiction tried.  i dont know the answer any more than anyone else, but i have sure as hell seen what doesnt work.  the definition of stoooopid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.  that applies to culls ....and also why im done on this thread.  some guys just arent worth the hassle.

darcy, if you read the link you provided, you will see the population drop you mentioned is 430000 animals down to 418000.  that was over one year, and determined largely to be a habitat issue according to your article.  i dont have the desire to rehash this crap with the same stubborn pair that refuse to read the links they themselves provide, but if you really want to see it, this thread has everything you need to know. 


http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=158816&highlight=colorado+mule+deer+numbers


youll see the longer term numbers showing a 2002 population in colorado of around 250000 mule deer.  so....down over one year yes, but up over historical numbers.  them darn stats showing whatever you want them to again.... speck and duff love to try that manipulation. 

you couldnt be more right that nobody knows the best way to deal with cwd, but culls have been proven to be an epic failure in every jurisdiction tried.  i dont know the answer any more than anyone else, but i have sure as hell seen what doesnt work.  the definition of stoooopid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.  that applies to culls ....and also why im done on this thread.  some guys just arent worth the hassle.

What you fail to see Bambi is yes A very lower number in 2002! But they also did their CWD management from around 2000/2001 to 2003/2004. This could have a huge impact on the number you are portrayed. So are you just picking numbers out that you like?? Oh and check the numbers again! They are far from a one year drop! It's basically been dropping since the last CWD management.

And where would all these areas be without said culls?? You and Justin must know if you say they are epic fails! So please enlighten us on how avoiding culls would have been so much more beneficial? Show us how the deer would have better off and thrived.

I am all for Change if change is required. Not change to slaughter unless we all are 1000000% this is going to fix the problem. It is proven not to so I am against that. Sorry Darcy but on that note I disagree.

Like I said to Dale, if you are so sure it was an epic fail please show use where deer herds would be without a cull? Show us how the spread of CWD would have went? To know it was such a huge fail you must have proof to show it! But so far neither of you have shown anything other than you talk with no backing.

Not saying culls are the way to go but is doing nothing? No one has any other ideas so tell would it have been better to not cull and sit around hoping it doesn't spread?

Still waiting on all your factual info you said you would come up with!!!

So half the state is CWD free right? Are you going by that map?

So half the state is CWD free right? Are you going by that map?

thats correct.  yet srd will try to convince you that wyoming and colorado have basically no deer left due to cwd, yet everything i can find shows that any population declines can be traced to habitat loss.....that was in the link you showed here.  srd also showed that mature mule deer bucks no longer exist because of cwd.  while not the most scientific proof, both P&Y and B&C show colorado and wyoming to be the number 1 and 2 producing jurisdictions to this day.  again, not the very best proof, but counts have never shown a mature buck ratio....only a buck to doe ratio.

and darcy, i have to ask....what do you even know about this?  i dont see you really trying to make any point one way or another, but rather just trying to show that anything anyone posts is wrong. 

Oh and I know numbers fluctuate due to a lot of causes my point is that People in this thread are claiming numbers are at an all time high in Colorado but that is far from the case!

darcy, you seem to be desparately trying to prove me wrong, without making an argument yourself.  it seems you are arguing for the sake of it, that you just hate seeing someone know something.  this is from your last link....obviously you arent reading the whole page of what you are providing.  this is from your link....

As of July 2011, at least one case of CWD has been detected in 24 of 55 deer (Odocoileus spp.)

sorry, i said about half, but you corrected me...its less than half.

this is also form your link.....

Although most of the small changes in the known distribution of CWD in Colorado probably have been due to detection of previously unidentified foci rather than true geographic spread, some natural spread undoubtedly is occurring.

now to say that they truly dont know if it exists in the southern regions is akin to saying we dont truly know if it exists in albertas mountain wmus, or the northern boreal wmus.  the fact known is that there have been zero positives in southern colorado.....thats in direct contrast to the bullsnot being spewed by srd about the situation.  rather than arguing with me, maybe we should focus on the best plan of attack from here.  again, i dont know what that is, but is definitely is not culling as proven in colorado.

the argument that if we had no deer there would be no cwd doesnt sit well with me.  it is here in our wild populations and we will be dealing with it well into the forseeable future.  rather than buying into the scare tactics from srd, i urge everyone to read all the info themselves and form their own opinion.  i have met a few people that are very knowledgeable on the subject that disagree with my views.  i can respect that, but the uninformed that argue without any basis in fact drive me bananas.

  Can you show where it would have been better off without them? How bout that larger culls wouldnt have helped Colorado from having a close to 50% infection rate?

lets start with your 50% number.  i know where you got it, and i also know why it isnt an accurate number of the whole sotry.  its like i already mentioned the number even higher from saskatchewan.  trent bollinger is watching one group of 70 deer feeding this past winter on a leaking grain bin.  he believes that at that time (january) that more than 50% of that group of deer was infected.  he couldnt explain how he came up with that number on a herd of wild deer, but thats what he said.  now to say a population in saskatechewan had a 50% infection in the eyes of most people would be hard to describe as accurate.  for one, he has no solid proof that half even are infected, but more importantly, one field with 70 deer is hardly a representation of a wild population.  here is a cut and paste of the definition of a population.....

Population


Definition

noun

(general)

People inhabiting a territory, as in American population.

(genetics, ecology)

A group of organisms of one species that interbreed and live in the same place at the same time (e.g. deer population).
 
(taxonomy)

A low-level taxonomic rank.

(statistics)

A set of individuals, objects, or data from where a statistical sample can be drawn
 

that last line is my problem with srd claiming that any wild population is anywhere near the numbers they are claiming.  do you believe that 70 animals are a sufficient population?  same goes for colorado....take a small enough sample and you may be able to manipulate the stats to show whatever you want them to.  remember just a few years back when alberta sampled 450 heads from the chauvin area and all were negative?  its in the thread i provided.  if you only went by that way too small sample, you could prove that the chauvin area is cwd free.  of course that is as ludicrous as swaying the numbers the other direction.  the fact is the highest management unit in colorado has around a 13% infection rate.  that is the highest known infection in any wild population.  im not positive the exact number, but the deer density was more than ten times the density of wmu 234 which is albertas highest at less than 1%.  given what colorado has seen over more than 40 years, it is a pretty safe bet that alberta will never see the infection rate come anywhere close.  our harsher climate keeps density much much lower without the help of culls. 

this is the biggest reason showing culls to be unwarranted.  as for them being useless and a failure, you have to go back to understanding what a prion is and how it works.  the fact that it lives in the soil and persists after the host has dies means that killing the host has never and cant ever work.  cwd cannot be stopped in the wild period due to the nature of prions.  can you argue it slowed anything...good luck....ive never seen anything to indicate any success, but i sure have seen a lot of deer die for nothing.

you are onto this a little.  prions remain and there is nothing we can do about it.  you can try to treat the soil to remove the prions, but that hasnt worked even in game farms where there is only a few dozen acres to try to clean.  to think that treatment of entire wmus is possible isnt realsitic.  culls failing is the only word i can think of.  the prions remain, so killing the animals is pointless in my opinion.  again, look at the deer density compared to some us states. higher deer density does spread it and nowhere is that more clear than game farms.  pro cullers argue that lowering density lowers prevalence.  anti cullers counter that killing deer to save deer doesnt make any sense.

as of today, there have been 127 cases of cwd in wild alberta deer.  127.  how many thousands do you reckon have been killed in culls?  the government pushed around 4500 into a big hole in the ground, plus who knows how many thousand more killed by hunters over the last 8 years.  unchecked, those 127 would have died for sure.....my problem is the countless thousands that died for no good reason.  cwd cannot be stopped.  it hasnt ever been done, yet srd thoght they could reinvetn the wheel here.  why the failure was epic.......look at the reaction by so many because of it.  distrust or srd is arguably at an all time high today.  the flat out lies told are completely unacceptable.  srd denies now that they showed computer modelling having every animal dead in alberta.  i was there when it was presented for eff sake, but today they (well the leader anyway) denies ever saying it. look at the reaction of landowners along the eastern border on all the hunting forums in western canada.  people are fed up.  even in this thread there is a guy speculating that the archery draws are to cull more deer!  thats massive distrust for all things srd are why the failure is so great.

if there was anything shown to have any positive effect on control of this disease, i would be the first to say giddy up....but the only strategy being considered is to cull.  thousands dead for 127 positives.....that makes no sense to me.  as for my trophy hunting, my zone hasnt been directly affected....yet.  its close enough that i know i will see positives in the next few years, and i have already seen an influx of eastern border hunters coming to my areas, but so far, my success hasnt taken a dip in the slightest.  funny that everyone wanting to try to tell me im wrong brings up trophy hunting.  i have never used it to defend my positiion, but i sure get attacked pretty regular for being a trophy hunter.  thats the last of my concerns.  a dumbass mule deer might stand around to get pummelled, but the big mature whitetatils i am after are smarter than the average culler that wants to kill him.  heck recently even in 234 a guy not known for being exactly brilliant managed to kill a whitetail bigger than 180 even after all the slaughter. 

watch what you say duffy.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLLOOLLOOLLLHAHAHA!

YOU are telling ME to watch what I say!!!!!!!  Is that a joke?
I don't know if your name is really Justin and I don't know what the C stands for.
Can you prove me wrong??



Dang! there I go again getting caught up in the "nonsense " and off topic by a person who is better at getting off topic than saying anything on topic.