Author Topic: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed  (Read 3650 times)

nube

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THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« on: February 12, 2012, 08:52:03 PM »
Rumour has it we GAVE them away and did not get any funds for sending them south.  With all of the talk about our own herds having issues and we want to send our sheep out of country :'(

If anyone knows who to send letters to please let me know.


http://www.huntthewest.com/2012/NEsheep.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HuntTheWest+%28Hunt+the+West%29

HarvestMaster

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 12:19:09 AM »
Hmm interesting...
One half of me thinks great, the sheep have a better chance at an increase in north American popultion due to the direct increase in access by sheep to good sheep habitat. The other half says, why do we always have to bailare neighbors out. Canada is becoming a storage facility or magic wand to cover up the natural resource devestation of other countries. I wonder what was given to Canada and Alberta in perticular to compensate or sportsmen for their loss?

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Hope this goes over well....

Doug N

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 07:13:48 AM »
I wonder how long until this group of sheep is hunted? Hopefully they have a chance to propagate for a few years first.

Wouldn't it be nice to see some sheep moved from a US population of bighorns, maybe Elk from Arizona or something along those lines for genetic diversity in our herds.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 08:55:02 AM by Doug N »

nube

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 08:14:40 AM »
Wouldn't it be nice to take care of our own herd and move these 40 animals to one of the southern areas where they are strugling a bit??  At least we could get paid for them and have the money used for something here to better the herd

Weste

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 08:30:54 AM »
This is BS!  It sounds like these herds are already being hunted as this move was funded by hunting licences sold over the that 15 years - probably auction type tags as they generated $800,000 in revenue according to the article.

Weste

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 08:35:27 AM »
Wouldn't it be nice to see some sheep moved from a US population of bighorns, domaine Elk from Arizona or something along those lines for genetic diversity in our herds.

Please never support any type of initiative like this for Alberta.  That is the reason our buffalo herd in Wood Buffalo National Park is full of disease.  It was an introduction of about 20 Buffalo from Montana in the early 1900's that brought those diseases to a natural population of Buffalo that was otherwise healthy.  We took them because Montana had nothing better to do with them.  I know that the scietists have improved their checks etc but we have great biodiversity, and for the most part, healthy populations of animals.  There is no reason to risk that for 10" of bone on an elk.

Paul

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2012, 08:55:14 AM »
They should swap us some Wyoming antelope on those sheep. 3 for 1 maybe?

Shootist

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 05:37:58 PM »
The problem is that the alta. gov. won't spend the money to relocate sheep in alberta. This way they can thin some from cadomin and not cost them anything.

badback

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 07:15:10 AM »
I wonder how long until this group of sheep is hunted? Hopefully they have a chance to propagate for a few years first.

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Springer

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 08:16:18 AM »
I sure dont remember any articles in the paper about this project. Does SRD just do a hush hush plan and just do this without public input from Albertans or was there any info shared through F&G clubs? Did the Wild Sheep Foundation support this....?

wildmeat

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 04:56:58 PM »
im not a sheep hunter myself but this urks me as well... i wasnt aware that our sheep population was doing so well that we could just give them away...  who plans this shit?

did we receive any compensation for them?  i doubt it!!!   them animals belong to the residents of alberta
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 05:01:43 PM by wildmeat »

nube

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 05:40:49 PM »
From what they say on the street the word is that no we did not get compensated for them.  They were sent free of charge.  Our costs were covered from what the rumour is and that is it. 
Who do you think is best to send letters to?  Mel Knight?  If anyone has an idea of who or any info please let me know.  I will send a few once I find the right people to send them to. 

Paul

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 07:05:35 PM »
I sure dont remember any articles in the paper about this project. Does SRD just do a hush hush plan and just do this without public input from Albertans or was there any info shared through F&G clubs? Did the Wild Sheep Foundation support this....?

A lot of what SRD does is covert. And they don't care what sportsmen think. Remember people, Government biologists know what's best for fish and game in Alberta, last letter I wrote to the minister about the starvation of of Lesser Slave due to excessive walleye management practices, even at the expense of other species, was replied to by the minister telling me that he heard the perch fishing in Lesser Slave was awesome. I haven't caught a perch there in 15 years.

AxeMan

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 09:09:04 PM »
Looks like we got ripped off.   >:(  We give 40 bighorns to Nebraska for free (costs covered), yet we will be paying China a million per year to rent a couple of Panda bears for the Calgary Zoo.

While I am not necessarily against relocating animal populations to traditional habitats and political borders mean shit to nature, we should be compensated in some way by the USA.
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ishootbambi

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2012, 11:27:04 PM »
i think we have been compensated before in other wildlife.  the last i can think of offhand is swift foxes....maybe some sage grouse too.  there have been others.  honestly, id rather see a few sheep going somewhere that hunters can see some benefit even if that happens to be another jurisdiction. 

for all the talk about transplanting sheep  around alberta, i havent seen a plan that really makes much sense.  some guys want to see them in badlands river valleys in alberta.  well thats not all bad, but if you put them on private land you are going to be staring down access issues.  there are already guys charging for access to elk and deer.....could you imagine what sheep would do to that situation?

then ive heard a plan to send them to dinosaur park, writing on stone and the like.  well, thats ok too, but would hunting happen there?  cypress hills is another.  i can tell you for sure the parkies out there now would shut down the elk hunt tomorrow if they had their way.  they dont want hunting of any kind there ever!  dont forget, any place open to hunting is also open to native harvest.  if you are upset about the 20 odd rams slaughtered off the highways this winter in the crowsnest in the name of subsistence, can you imagine what would happen if access was easy year round?  youd have to wonder if the rest of us would ever see a mature ram in those areas. 

even sending them to the mountain regions isnt very easy.  loading them into horse trailers is the cheapest way to move them, but then you can only release them into areas with road access.  road access means death in ways explained already.  that would be nothing more than a put and take situation  a lot like pheasants or rainbow trout on the prairies.  seems a pretty expensive way to up the harvest of sheep.

the best solution is helicopter transport into remote areas.  at 1100 bucks an hour give or take to put a chopper in the air, that would be the most expensive solution yet.  id say its the most favorable answer, but who the hell is gonna pay for it? 

in a roundabout way, sending them away is not all bad i think.  id rather see some positives instead of just letting them die on the mines. 
opinions are like sphincters......everyone has one, and they all stink!

ovis40

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 11:34:30 AM »
Have a look in the book Return of Royalty and you will see that a lot of the sheep herds in the lower 48 are there because of Alberta and BC sheep stock. I'm sure the USA said thanks....but it would be nice if the Ab. Gov. would pass that thanks onto the public. Better yet tell the public their intentions in the first place! I think getting some sheep off the mine is a good thing as it's a time bomb. I agree with ishootbambi in that it isn't all bad. But it would be real nice if they could be put on our own soil first. The badlands thing is working real well in Montana so why wouldn't it work in Alberta. Letís work on getting some there first before we piss and moan about who gets to shot one. And where does the money come from? That question can be answered with a question. Where the hell has all the money gone to from all the Premiers tags?
WSF Ab. tried to get some money from that pot to do a study to get things rolling for the Badlands thing and got turned down,WTF!

"loading them into horse trailers is the cheapest way to move them, but then you can only release them into areas with road access" 
  Not sure why this would be. The transplant from Cadomin to Ram Mtn. was done with trailers and then the sheep were flown in by chopper.
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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 03:26:39 PM »
i think we have been compensated before in other wildlife.  the last i can think of offhand is swift foxes....maybe some sage grouse too.  there have been others.  honestly, id rather see a few sheep going somewhere that hunters can see some benefit even if that happens to be another jurisdiction. 

for all the talk about transplanting sheep  around alberta, i havent seen a plan that really makes much sense.  some guys want to see them in badlands river valleys in alberta.  well thats not all bad, but if you put them on private land you are going to be staring down access issues.  there are already guys charging for access to elk and deer.....could you imagine what sheep would do to that situation?

then ive heard a plan to send them to dinosaur park, writing on stone and the like.  well, thats ok too, but would hunting happen there?  cypress hills is another.  i can tell you for sure the parkies out there now would shut down the elk hunt tomorrow if they had their way.  they dont want hunting of any kind there ever!  dont forget, any place open to hunting is also open to native harvest.  if you are upset about the 20 odd rams slaughtered off the highways this winter in the crowsnest in the name of subsistence, can you imagine what would happen if access was easy year round?  youd have to wonder if the rest of us would ever see a mature ram in those areas. 

even sending them to the mountain regions isnt very easy.  loading them into horse trailers is the cheapest way to move them, but then you can only release them into areas with road access.  road access means death in ways explained already.  that would be nothing more than a put and take situation  a lot like pheasants or rainbow trout on the prairies.  seems a pretty expensive way to up the harvest of sheep.

the best solution is helicopter transport into remote areas.  at 1100 bucks an hour give or take to put a chopper in the air, that would be the most expensive solution yet.  id say its the most favorable answer, but who the hell is gonna pay for it? 

in a roundabout way, sending them away is not all bad i think.  id rather see some positives instead of just letting them die on the mines.


Putting Bighorns on the prairie is a dumb idea IMO. Apparently there are problems with some of the Bighorn herds around this Province, so why not re-locate these Bighorns to area in ALBERTA that could use some help?

walking buffalo

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 12:49:57 PM »

Putting Bighorns on the prairie is a dumb idea IMO. Apparently there are problems with some of the Bighorn herds around this Province, so why not re-locate these Bighorns to area in ALBERTA that could use some help?


Unfortunately, F&W's bait regarding "Problems" with the Bighorn sheep population is being swallowed by some, hook, line and sinker.


Alberta's sheep are at a near all time high in overall population, ram % are good in 5 out of 8 Sheep management areas. Clearwater/Ram/Shunda are an area of concern, that is all.


There is nothing wrong with participating in this translocation. We have the excess sheep.




nube

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 04:00:30 PM »
You just finished telling me that we have problems in 3 areas WB but then you say translocating sheep is not a big deal??
Why not take those sheep and help out the areas of concern then? 
Why would we GIVE the sheep away?  It does us no good.  At least we could get paid for them so when we do have more concerns and want to do something about it we at least have the funds to do so.  How about using the money to fly around and kill a few wolves???  Got to think future not just now is what I think. 
What erks me is they say there is a problem with our sheep herds and yet the next day they want to GIVE them away to the U.S.  What a bunch of crap!!!

sheepguide

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Re: THIS IS BS!!!!! I'm pissed
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2012, 09:46:40 AM »
Lots of valid points from all here.
First I dont think that we should give our animals away for free(depending on circumstances) but also dont feel any reason not to help out anywhere sheep need a helping hand. Remember guys its about the sheep not about us!!!!

People say we should have moved them to places in Alberta that the populations could use a little help. Well until the issues with predators in Alberta is resolved then this may not accomplish nothing either. Others say move them to the river breaks in Southern Alberta! I personal like this too but what are the chances of the sheep moving into these areas getting disease? The farther the population is spread into farming areas the more at risk they are. And if the population does come down with something what the chances of these sheep spreading it back to our mountain heards?

Now many are upset that there is only concern with sheep hunting in a few areas of Alberta so why is there proposed changes to the whole province? Well like Walking Buff stated  the 3-4 zones most targeted(like was mentioned Clearwater, Ranger, Ram, Hummingbird and 438) and having the most  concern for are the 3-4 that have the highest hunter population and are the largest by area. The hunter numbers in these areas are actually the biggest reasons they are being of concern. So as some including Walking Buff, some outdoor writters and many Alberta sportsman would have only them few zones would see changes and all the zones they hunt would be left with General seasons. Well if that was to happen good luck to you hunters and the sheep populations in the areas left unchanged as if the targeted zones were the only ones put on draw the pressure in the rest of the province will double. Most of the guys that didnt get tags in the zones on draw would then hunt the zones open causing extra pressure and possibly over hunting issues in these general season zones And boy would there be people bitching then !!!  Also the zones on draw will most likely start producing some large rams so then it will become like 438 draws as everyone will want a chance to hunt there so everyone will put in for the draw then just hunt general season if they dont get it.
I feel if they do put it on draw that each zone should be its own draw code! You pick where you want to hunt and you stick with it. Your priority can not be switched to other zones. Thats what id like anyways.

My other concern is that the studies and all the experts talking on these forums say what is the issue, populations are good according to counts. Yes this is true if you beleive the people counting!!!  But why in a good number of wintering areas are sheep numbers way down or non existant? Many area that had high ewe numbers migrating to are barren of any sheep the last few winters. And areas that many of the large old park rams used to come for rutting season and to winter dont see any influx of sheep. Populations are supposed to be good but yet some areas the animals are not moving to traditional rutting and wintering areas? Does this mean that the habitat has gone down hill and these areas can no longer sustain these animals, does it mean predators are keeping them pushed into other areas or is human activity pushing them off these areas and if so what kind of affect is this having on the areas that they are rutting and wintering in now?  Is this having any affect on genetics from other areas with rams not moving into some areas? Is this putting added pressure on other areas of there habitat?
There is problems out there!!!  And many dont see it daily or dont see it in the one direct area they hunt or travel so they feel there should be no changes.

A draw if done right doesnt need to be a once in a lifetime tag as many are saying. Sure some of Alberta sheep draws have turned this way but they have a bit more pull to people than just an average bighorn zone will. Others cry that there are 2000 sheep hunters and 9000 put in for 438 for draws so we will have no chance other than maybe once in a lifetime to get drawn!!!  Well again I can guarentee the number of people that put in for zones other than 438 and the other mine hunts will be far from that type of numbers.

Im personally now wanting and pushing for a full curl rule!! Yep a bunch will say many old rams wont make full curl! And yep thats what im looking forward to seeing. And the ones that due will be true "Trophy Bighorn Sheep". Plus I can be out there every year with my boys hunting and looking at some nice mature rams.

Should Alberta sheep be transplanted else where? Yes if them areas are stuggling and or they are starting new heards. Should we be compensated? I think so but many clubs organizing these transplants would be unable to if cost were any higher so if it means sheep populations wont get the help needed because of higher payments because us as Alberta outoorsman want something back then I dont see being compensated as its about the bighorn sheep not about whether we get paid for them.

Lots of issues need to be addressed with Bighorn Sheep managment but first many Albertans need to move priority from themselves to the sheep.  Fix any issues with Sheep, Sheep habitat and predators and we intern will thrive with great hunting oppertunities.

My little rant since I havent posted anything for a while!!!

SG
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 10:29:57 AM by sheepguide »
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