Environment, Economy, Politics.

[avb3]

I don't always agree with this guys views, but man, he IS funny. Warning. Strong Language.


http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2016/08/liberal-redneck-trae-crowder-donald-trump-khan-family/

[Walleyes]

Trouble is about Christian principles, they were used to justify slavery. Heck, even JC himself told masters how to beat slaves. (LK 12: 47-48) That is not a moral teaching I want to live by, society to abide by, or my children or grandchildren to even hear. Of course, today, most western country's citizens are abhorred by the thought of slavery, both christians and non-christians. So, guess that morality has shifted over the years.


The meme with the 2 commandments stands the test of time. If you are not harming yourself or anyone else, who cares what you are doing. Consensual activities between adults according to the 2nd commandment (don't harm yourself or others) pretty well covers it all. If your forcing someone, you are doing harm.

Yah no sorry avb3 your taking that parable completely out of context. Which is a common excuse for people to do. Go back read the entire chapter better yet read the entire book. Christ is referring to punishment becoming to people who know the Lord is coming who know the laws in this case the Jewish leaders of his time  but refuse to live by those same laws and to live by the gospels given to them by the prophets. ( kind of like people today ) He's not telling anyone to beat their slaves in fact if you read the gospels Christ told his followers to love their slaves and in all reality they should be set free. Slaves were a different thing in those days, if someone worked for a person in those days they would be considered a slave. People were indebted to masters in those days for many different reasons sometimes they would work off land, or a dept. Yes there were slaves but not always in the context as we know slaves.

And I'm not going to be fool and try and say there haven't been people that called themselves Christian that haven't done deplorable things in the name of Christianity, but that's people that's not the gospels that's not what Christ taught that's what people wanted to do, that's what happens when people take the gospels out of context and twist them into what they want them to say to justify their doings and desires. I challenge you to read the gospel, read it with an open mind not a mind with an awnser before you read it, read one of chirsts gospels, either Mathew, Mark, Luke or John they are pretty much repeats in matter just different a different author then read Acts followed by Pauls books, you show me one part in any of them that teaches anything but love and tolerance. In fact what many people don't understand about the gospels is in fact none of the rules if you want to call them that, none of what Paul instructed anyone to do even dealt with those people of the world they were instructions to those that called themselves Christians because even in those early days there were those that twisted the gospel and used them to their advantage. There really are no rules for the world cause it doesn't matter one way or the other, if we are non repentant then that's the issue not what we do, it's what we haven't done. But once someone calls themselves a Christian then there are expectations of us.

[avb3]

Yah no sorry avb3 your taking that parable completely out of context. Which is a common excuse for people to do. Go back read the entire chapter better yet read the entire book.

I've read the book, many times. And concordances. And taken numerous comparative religion classes at university. This is not new to me.

Christ is referring to punishment becoming to people who know the Lord is coming who know the laws in this case the Jewish leaders of his time  but refuse to live by those same laws and to live by the gospels given to them by the prophets. ( kind of like people today ) He's not telling anyone to beat their slaves in fact if you read the gospels Christ told his followers to love their slaves and in all reality they should be set free. Slaves were a different thing in those days, if someone worked for a person in those days they would be considered a slave. People were indebted to masters in those days for many different reasons sometimes they would work off land, or a dept. Yes there were slaves but not always in the context as we know slaves.

Not Christ, or Paul, or any other biblical figure has ever been recorded as saying anything against the institution of slavery. In fact, Paul numerous times talks about slavery, never condemning it. If Christ was against slavery, the parable was a perfect opportunity to say so, but no, rather he used the event to describe how a slave should be beaten. And that IS in context. BTW, SOME slaves were there as a result of debt, but only SOME.

And I'm not going to be fool and try and say there haven't been people that called themselves Christian that haven't done deplorable things in the name of Christianity, but that's people that's not the gospels that's not what Christ taught that's what people wanted to do, that's what happens when people take the gospels out of context and twist them into what they want them to say to justify their doings and desires. I challenge you to read the gospel, read it with an open mind not a mind with an awnser before you read it, read one of chirsts gospels, either Mathew, Mark, Luke or John they are pretty much repeats in matter just different a different author then read Acts followed by Pauls books, you show me one part in any of them that teaches anything but love and tolerance. In fact what many people don't understand about the gospels is in fact none of the rules if you want to call them that, none of what Paul instructed anyone to do even dealt with those people of the world they were instructions to those that called themselves Christians because even in those early days there were those that twisted the gospel and used them to their advantage. There really are no rules for the world cause it doesn't matter one way or the other, if we are non repentant then that's the issue not what we do, it's what we haven't done. But once someone calls themselves a Christian then there are expectations of us.

What about Paul breaking the Mosaic laws? jebus never repudiated the laws on slavery; in fact, "not one tittle be changed" when he came to fulfill them. When Paul was in prison and met the slave Onesmus, he sent the slave back to his owner. That action is forbidden in DT 23:15-16. "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant (slave) which is escaped from his master unto thee. He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in on of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."


Paul HINTS at Philmon should give Onesmus his freedom, but does not demand it. Regardless, he did not observe the Law that still would have been in place. If Christ didn't change a law, it stays. That IS scripture.


PS: Everytime I type J e s u s it comes out as jebus. Something goofy with the spell checker. You might want someone check into it.

[avb3]

Looks like a new boom for Alberta is a long time away. It makes one wonder if plus $60 oil will ever be here again, considering oversupply and the huge inroads alternatives are making.


As U.S. crude wobbles near $40, new oil rally in doubt

[W101]

Oil-Smoil......lets get back to the important stuff .
  My wife says I am Roman Catholic by convenience . That means
  I have no problem being your moral judge , I know what you
  should be doing at all times . It's the best . I keep having to tell
   my born again friends , check back with me in a thousand years
   Or so when you get your shit together . If your over 30 your opinion
    on society's moral decay does not matter. Ask any 16 yr old who is
    Educated ( not in a cult school ) someone who is destined to be a normal
     member of society about all the abominations that boomers have to suffer .
     These things are no big deal to the next builders . 
           I am so glad that it is possible to have this open minded discussion on
       this forum , because there are so called open discussions where open discussions
        Are not tolerated . But they originate in a non democratic country called Edmonton .
         I studied for a number of years to become an Oblate Father but I opted for booze
          And broads and university sociology/ psychology. I have no regrets .
           I can speed read , funny how certain words always get my attention on posts
           Big as in fish , penis as in penis , Carry on .😈

[avb3]

Ha! I loved my 7 years of Catholic school that included nuns and a priest as teachers (the nuns were actually pretty good). Then I compounded my torture by getting married a second time to an SDA girl. Looked like Princess Di, but preached like her hero, Ellen White (she didn't start that until a year into the marriage). When she started taking exorcism classes, I suggested her and my respective futures were best served apart. She agreed. Something about being unequally yolked.

Oil-Smoil......lets get back to the important stuff .
  My wife says I am Roman Catholic by convenience . That means
  I have no problem being your moral judge , I know what you
  should be doing at all times . It's the best . I keep having to tell
   my born again friends , check back with me in a thousand years
   Or so when you get your shit together . If your over 30 your opinion
    on society's moral decay does not matter. Ask any 16 yr old who is
    Educated ( not in a cult school ) someone who is destined to be a normal
     member of society about all the abominations that boomers have to suffer .
     These things are no big deal to the next builders . 
           I am so glad that it is possible to have this open minded discussion on
       this forum , because there are so called open discussions where open discussions
        Are not tolerated . But they originate in a non democratic country called Edmonton .
         I studied for a number of years to become an Oblate Father but I opted for booze
          And broads and university sociology/ psychology. I have no regrets .
           I can speed read , funny how certain words always get my attention on posts
           Big as in fish , penis as in penis , Carry on .😈

[Walleyes]

I'm too tired to carry this on tonight, I'll wait until morning lol. Was up late cleaning my wellsite, doing laundry, mopped the floors, packed all my gear then up at 430 and drove my 8 hr drive home. Now after being home after a 3 week hitch and only being home for 6 days then back in for another 21,, it just doesn't seem all that appealing to me tonight.

Its a good debate though, lots of good stuff coming to light, its all good on this site as long as it doesn't turn into personnel attacks that's what this site is about.

I will mention though for tonight, I don't want anyone to ever think I consider myself a judge of anyone, I have my convictions, others have there's and that's the beauty of the whole thing we each have that option.

I respect all peoples views and enjoy hearing them.

Later boys, I have a wife I haven't seen in 3 weeks beside me,, you can all wait.

[avb3]

Agreed, we can always differ on perspectives, that should never become personal. Robust discussion is always good.

I'm too tired to carry this on tonight, I'll wait until morning lol. Was up late cleaning my wellsite, doing laundry, mopped the floors, packed all my gear then up at 430 and drove my 8 hr drive home. Now after being home after a 3 week hitch and only being home for 6 days then back in for another 21,, it just doesn't seem all that appealing to me tonight.

Its a good debate though, lots of good stuff coming to light, its all good on this site as long as it doesn't turn into personnel attacks that's what this site is about.

I will mention though for tonight, I don't want anyone to ever think I consider myself a judge of anyone, I have my convictions, others have there's and that's the beauty of the whole thing we each have that option.

I respect all peoples views and enjoy hearing them.

Later boys, I have a wife I haven't seen in 3 weeks beside me,, you can all wait.

[Walleyes]

Going to close this off for myself but I just wanted to clear the air on a couple things.

First off avb yes you are wrong on the parable. If you read the parable in its whole context Christ is not speaking about directly beating anyone, again he is referring to the treatment becoming the Jewish leaders of the time. Do to the fact they were left in charge of the Jews, they were supposed to direct Gods people but in stead led then astray. Christ is speaking of the judgment that will come their way.

This issue on slavery is brought up often by those looking for excuses to deny the bible and its teachings.

Some reading for those that really care and want the real answers.

I want to get the record straight once and for all about this slavery issue. It gets thrown in my face quite often as an ad hominem to discredit God.

The Bible denounces slavery as sin and goes as far to put slave traders in the same boat as murderers (1 Timothy 1:10)

Plus we have to use our "proper" hermeneutics to see what the Bible actually says about slavery.

Back in the days of Leviticus slavery was sanctioned due to economic reasons. Back then, there were no such thing as bankruptcy laws so people would sell themselves into slavery to rectify debts. A craftsman could use his skills to literally "pay off" a debt. Or a convicted thief could make restitution by serving as a slave. (Exodus 22:3)

The Bible recognizes the reality of slavery, but it never promotes the practice of slavery. It was the biblical principles that ultimately led to the overthrow of slavery, both in ancient Israel and in the United States.

One has to only go far as to think why the Jews left Egypt in the first place to see God's view of slavery. It took some years in America to wake up to the realization of biblical truth that all people are created by God with innate equality. (Genesis 1:27, Acts 17:26-28, Galatians 3:28)

The Old Testament on Slavery

People might be surprised to learn that the Bible does not condone slavery at all, even in the Old Testament as many falsely claim. Even in the first laws that God gave, God abhorred the capturing of people to make them slaves.  Exodus 21:16 states, “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.” God not only forbids slavery, He gives them the death penalty for it. That’s how serious God sees slavery as.  Slavery is no different than kidnapping to God.  But what about the slaves mentioned elsewhere in the Old Testament?

Leviticus 25:39-43 says, “If a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service. He shall be with you as a hired man, as if he were a sojourner; he shall serve with you until the year of jubilee.  He shall then go out from you, he and his sons with him, and shall go back to his family, that he may return to the property of his forefathers.  For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale. You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God.”  Here God says that a poor person sells their self to get out of debt but they are not to be subjected to them in service as a slave.  They are also be freed after the year of the Jubilee.  God calls them “My servants” and they are not to be sold in a slave sale. How clear is that?

In Exodus 21:2 it states, “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything.” Here it says that if you buy a Hebrew servant, they are not to be considered a slave, and even after they buy this servant they are to go free in the seventh year “without paying anything.”  That is nothing like a slave at all.   Incidentally, the term slavery in the Hebrew does not mean what we think of slavery today.   The word slave in the Old Testament actually refers to a position of being subordinate in the social ladder of the society.  Any Hebrew scholar knows this.  For example Abraham had servants.  In the majority of places that slaves are mentioned in the Old Testament this is the proper context.  To know that, one must read the entire chapter or better yet, the entire book to find out what the contextual meaning of the word slavery (better rendered “subordinate”) means


http://www.comereason.org/slavery-in-the-bible.asp

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/800-what-about-the-bible-and-slavery

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-slavery.html

I find it interesting avb that in talking with you, you never denounce the existence of God or Christ or even Paul it just seems you disagree with their teachings as though some how by being angry at it you will be exonerated from the whole concept. Being angry at the bible and its teachings seems to be a common theme amongst those raised in the Catholic church I'm not sure why as I've never been associated with the church so I cant say what all goes on there. I do know Catholics for the most part and even in my church as a youth we were taught the fear of God and not the love of God. I think this is what pushed so many people away. We were taught a whole set of rules and do's and don'ts when in fact that's not what the gospel is about. Christ stated that he wanted mercy not sacrifice from us. Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings Its not about a set bunch of rules, its about being set free from the rules and constraints of the world. I personally have never felt so free and felt so full of life as when I finally came to this realization of what Gods love really is. God doesn't want us walking around like moronic robots he wants us to enjoy life and be free, yes as time goes on he may convict us to live a more disciplined life but that will come in time. We all continue to struggle with things. Never think for a minute that I believe I am perfect and others are doomed to hell. We all struggle myself with many things but I know my role in this world I know to whom I am grateful, I acknowledge to whom all things come from, when I fail I know to whom I must ask for forgiveness and keep on the struggle.

But that's it from me, I don't want to be one of those preachy people that's not who I am and this has went on long enough we don't want to bore people. In the end this is an Outdoors forum not a religious forum there are places we can debate it. Better yet some day we can go out on the lake in my boat and discuss it openly in person, I would much prefer that anyways. Kill two birds with one stone a good fishing trip and a good debate.

[avb3]

Going to close this off for myself but I just wanted to clear the air on a couple things.

First off avb yes you are wrong on the parable. If you read the parable in its whole context Christ is not speaking about directly beating anyone, again he is referring to the treatment becoming the Jewish leaders of the time. Do to the fact they were left in charge of the Jews, they were supposed to direct Gods people but in stead led then astray. Christ is speaking of the judgment that will come their way.

This issue on slavery is brought up often by those looking for excuses to deny the bible and its teachings.

Some reading for those that really care and want the real answers.

I want to get the record straight once and for all about this slavery issue. It gets thrown in my face quite often as an ad hominem to discredit God.

The Bible denounces slavery as sin and goes as far to put slave traders in the same boat as murderers (1 Timothy 1:10)

Plus we have to use our "proper" hermeneutics to see what the Bible actually says about slavery.

Back in the days of Leviticus slavery was sanctioned due to economic reasons. Back then, there were no such thing as bankruptcy laws so people would sell themselves into slavery to rectify debts. A craftsman could use his skills to literally "pay off" a debt. Or a convicted thief could make restitution by serving as a slave. (Exodus 22:3)

You are forgetting that there were two types of slavery. One is the debt slavery you describe. The other is the slavery of non-Jews, usually as a result of war. Those were not subject to the seven year thing, and were in perpetual bond, as was their offspring. In addition, there was the deception thing, that if a debt slave wants to stay with his slave wife, he stays a slave forever.

• If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.  But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.  I would rather not go free.'  If he does this, his master must present him before God.  Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.  After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.[/size]  [/size]Exodus 21:2-6[/i]

That disgusting thing on capturing female slaves outlined in Judges 21:10-24 by stalking them by hiding behind bushes to capture them is horrible.

One has to only go far as to think why the Jews left Egypt in the first place to see God's view of slavery. It took some years in America to wake up to the realization of biblical truth that all people are created by God with innate equality. (Genesis 1:27, Acts 17:26-28, Galatians 3:28)

There is no extra biblical evidence, in writing nor archaeology that substantiates that the Exodus ever happened. Interesting article on thies subject in Haaretz, a major Jewish newspaper:


http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/the-jewish-thinker/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844

I find it interesting avb that in talking with you, you never denounce the existence of God or Christ or even Paul it just seems you disagree with their teachings as though some how by being angry at it you will be exonerated from the whole concept. Being angry at the bible and its teachings seems to be a common theme amongst those raised in the Catholic church I'm not sure why as I've never been associated with the church so I cant say what all goes on there. I do know Catholics for the most part and even in my church as a youth we were taught the fear of God and not the love of God. I think this is what pushed so many people away. We were taught a whole set of rules and do's and don'ts when in fact that's not what the gospel is about. Christ stated that he wanted mercy not sacrifice from us. Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings Its not about a set bunch of rules, its about being set free from the rules and constraints of the world. I personally have never felt so free and felt so full of life as when I finally came to this realization of what Gods love really is. God doesn't want us walking around like moronic robots he wants us to enjoy life and be free, yes as time goes on he may convict us to live a more disciplined life but that will come in time. We all continue to struggle with things. Never think for a minute that I believe I am perfect and others are doomed to hell. We all struggle myself with many things but I know my role in this world I know to whom I am grateful, I acknowledge to whom all things come from, when I fail I know to whom I must ask for forgiveness and keep on the struggle.

Paul certainly was a real person, a great salesmen of the philosophy. However, much of the NT wasn't cobbled together until the Council of Nicaea, at Constantine's demand that the Arian controversy be settled. Once that was done, all extant religious writings that did not comply with that were burned, including the library at Alexandria. The victor gets to write history, and so it was what we have today. The findings at Nag Hammadi  show at least some of what existed, including many different gospels. And so a myth became a reality for many people, and continues that way today.


I kind of like my Two Commandments. They pretty well cover all, including some of the nasty stuff the bible, koran and other Abrahamic writings ignore.

But that's it from me, I don't want to be one of those preachy people that's not who I am and this has went on long enough we don't want to bore people. In the end this is an Outdoors forum not a religious forum there are places we can debate it. Better yet some day we can go out on the lake in my boat and discuss it openly in person, I would much prefer that anyways. Kill two birds with one stone a good fishing trip and a good debate.

[/size]Nature drives my spirituality, so fishing is always good! Not even sure how we got on this, but healthy debate is good. Emphasis on healthy.

[Paul]

Good video explaining simple economics

*WARNING NSFW STRONG LANGUAGE DO NOT WATCH IF THE F WORD OFFENDS YOU*

[W101]

 Just so we are all clear, that was my idea of satirical humour . If I seriously offended
   Someone my apologies .
     My motto has been for a few decades "  Live and let live " .....In my case I know
   that acceptance is crucial, but that doesn't mean I Approve.  I have lots of friends
    And familly who are certainly more devout than I ......and that's cool .
    My politics are pretty right and my ethics pretty traditional. I just find that I have
     To laugh a some of the insanity that society is suffering from , or I'd spin out . Lol

[Walleyes]

Lol,, I like it Paul. Like the video says at the end even f'n baby knows.. Should send that to Notley, you think it would make sense to them.. I doubt it.

[W101]

Let's all wish a big wish that there is one more cell left
 In the woman's detention centre ...

   http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08/05/alison-redford_n_11351202.html

   There has to be some justice somewhere !

[Walleyes]

Problem is what would they do if she is found guilty of wrong doing, spank her hand. This woman has proven to be a corrupt Bureaucratic from day one. At Least it would finally cement her legacy as a complete failure, which would be fine with me.

[Walleyes]

Lol this is a good read people yah got to read it.

http://boereport.com/2016/08/08/suncor-ponders-stranding-oil-sands-reserves-humbly-adjusting-to-the-lowest-common-denominator-with-spectacular-results/

[avb3]

Like it or not, change is coming for energy production, and it has less to do with the green movement and more to do with economics. Large power users are transitioning to onsite mostly solar, and some wind power.


https://insideclimatenews.org/news/08082016/corporate-clean-energy-utilities-not-required-google-gm-walmart-microsoft-solar-wind-ppa

[Walleyes]

It's still a long ways off for much change. Its a nice thought that makes every body feel warm a fed fuzzy inside but the reality is fossil fuels are here for many many years yet. Its going to be hard to keep up to world demand in coming years even with fossils and green bird killing solar panels and wind mill farms.

http://www.troymedia.com/2016/07/19/green-energy-future-still-long-way-off/

[BruceW]

Don't remember where I read it but in 2015 every single country in the world was forecasting greater oil demand in 2016 than for 2015.

Pie in the sky pipedreams are popular but simply childish.  Current tech. wind is in the baby steps of becoming actually useful and solar is much the same.  Things like electric cars are really just toys at this point (toys driving around with a trunkfull of rare earth minerals, much like windmills).

Anyone who thinks within a few years they'll be basking in only what's falsely touted as, "green" energy will find themselves sitting the dark, freezing in the winter with nothing to eat.  Come to think of it, maybe that's not such a bad thing.  Bring some city folks back towards reality.  Once the brownouts start and they can't afford to turn on the furnace coal will start looking pretty good.  Add in all the coming carbon taxes and they'll learn that every single thing they eat used oil to be produced and came to the city in a semi-truck burning diesel.
Right now they don't seem to comprehend that. 

[avb3]

It's still a long ways off for much change. Its a nice thought that makes every body feel warm a fed fuzzy inside but the reality is fossil fuels are here for many many years yet. Its going to be hard to keep up to world demand in coming years even with fossils and green bird killing solar panels and wind mill farms.

http://www.troymedia.com/2016/07/19/green-energy-future-still-long-way-off/

It seems that forecasts suggest oil demand will increase world wide until 2030, and then start falling off, down to single figures by the end of this century. Advances in alternatives are actually coming faster then expected, and particularly, at less cost then expected. We are not there yet, but one sees glimpses of it. I know of one Lockheed Martin plant near my condo in Florida that covered the carports for employee's cars with solar panels. One can see it from the road, and I would not be surprised if the roof of their 1950's building was also covered. Look at all the alternative energy, both solar and wind, that the Hutterites have on their colonies in Alberta.





It is a report of the largest solar installation in western Canada, which now produces 25% of Alberta's solar power.