Author Topic: AF&GA resolution (Read 3193 times)

deerman · « **on:** February 08, 2013, 10:47:18 PM »

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Alberta Fish and Game Association request Alberta Environment and Sustainable Resource Development implement a primitive or muzzle loading black powder firearms big game season from October 15 – October 31 throughout the province in all WMU’s with November firearm seasons that have a November 1 opening for rifle.

One of the resolutions the AF&GA will vote on at the conference in RedDeer.

What do you think?

Tuc · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2013, 07:48:26 AM »

Why not!

AxeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:31:06 AM »

My head is spinning with all these proposals and special seasons. Bow season, muzzleloader season, rifle season. Then we have other weapons trying to fit in like crossbows.

Maybe we just need one season (perhaps longer). Set conservation objectives as a priority and make the game management sustainable. Then let the hunters who are able to fairly draw a tag based on the priority system choose the weapon they want to hunt with.

Right now it is a huge pissing match to segregate seasons and opportunities based on hunting methods.

Also make non-resident hunters apply for the draws. Tough titty for APOS and the rich non-residents who can kill an animal every single year just based on fact they have money.

Guido · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:37:41 AM »

Quote from: Tuc on February 09, 2013, 07:48:26 AM

Why not!

Because modern black powder weapons are as good or better than a 30-30.
Make the rule front loading and open sights and I might agree.
If this goes through how would it affect the mule deer draw? Would there be 3 seperate draws?

walleyes · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:19:29 AM »

I say why not as well,, what ever it takes to open opurtunities.. Don't care whos a purrist at what,, suck it up..

There are just way to many variables no matter how you look at it.. Axe is right the game and the conservation of the game should be priority not personel opinions on hunting preferances and one groups prefered method taking preferance over the next..

Tuc · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2013, 01:57:38 PM »

Guido, I hear you but we need all the freebies we can get. I don't like the government putting restrictions on common sense. You know how it is, usually when they take something away, we never get it back.
Ya, maybe a few adjustments but let er rip!

deerman · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:47:57 PM »

Quote from: AxeMan on February 09, 2013, 10:31:06 AM

My head is spinning with all these proposals and special seasons. Bow season, muzzleloader season, rifle season. Then we have other weapons trying to fit in like crossbows.

Maybe we just need one season (perhaps longer). Set conservation objectives as a priority and make the game management sustainable. Then let the hunters who are able to fairly draw a tag based on the priority system choose the weapon they want to hunt with.

Right now it is a huge pissing match to segregate seasons and opportunities based on hunting methods.

Also make non-resident hunters apply for the draws. Tough titty for APOS and the rich non-residents who can kill an animal every single year just based on fact they have money.

Actually if you look at the resolution it does not ask for a SEPARATE Muzzleloader season.

The "Archery ONLY" season would by definition have to come to an end but Bows, Cross bows and Muzzleloaders could fit into a "primitive" weapons seasons for the last two weeks of Oct. in many zones.

The archery season allows a wide range of types and technology in bows. The fellow with a wooden long bow and cedar arrows hunts side by side with the fellow with a titanium zoomy-cam bow and granite shafts.

I see no need to try and legislate "primitive" into muzzleloaders that are single shot guns that load from the front.

deerman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2013, 07:46:48 PM »

Quote from: JustinC on February 09, 2013, 03:15:29 PM

Freeman you need to contact your club. You are missinformed.

What does that mean???

NBFK · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:39:21 PM »

I really hope this doesn't go through.........

deerman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2013, 09:34:38 PM »

Quote from: JustinC on February 09, 2013, 08:27:49 PM

Why do you disagree with a muzzleloader season ( primitive weapon season)?

I am all in favour of the resolution to have a muzzleloader season or a primitive weapons season.

Guido · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:25:03 PM »

Quote from: deerman on February 10, 2013, 09:34:38 PM

I am all in favour of the resolution to have a muzzleloader season or a primitive weapons season.

It's too bad they didn't word the resolution stating this. Plus open sights only.

NBFK · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:03:05 PM »

I have to deal with enough road warriors from november1st-30th. I wouldn't mind the season if everyone had permission and didn't just drive anywhere they want. I just get bitter when rifle season opens because its like every villages idiot has a tag and a gun driving past your stands at prime time. Like it's been stated a muzzleloader is a fancy word for a single shot rifle......

deerman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2013, 04:32:16 PM »

The way I look at it there are law breaking poachers and there are law abiding good hunters.

I am hoping the good guys far far outnumber the bad guys.

If you make a regulation change (like this one) and it benifits all the good guys that is great.

If a few of the bad guys take advantage of it to poach some more then that is a small unfortunate price to pay.

I don't like it when we decide the good guys should be denied an opportunity so we can hold back a few bad guys.

A bow is a bow, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective that others. There are no special restrictive deffinitions as to what can legally be used as a bow.

A rifle is a rifle, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective than others. There are no special restrictive definitions as to what can be used as a rifle.

A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective than others. Why should there be any restrictive regulations of definitions as to what is a legal muzzleloader?

Guido · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2013, 05:14:44 PM »

Quote from: deerman on February 11, 2013, 04:32:16 PM

The way I look at it there are law breaking poachers and there are law abiding good hunters.

I am hoping the good guys far far outnumber the bad guys.

If you make a regulation change (like this one) and it benifits all the good guys that is great.

If a few of the bad guys take advantage of it to poach some more then that is a small unfortunate price to pay.

I don't like it when we decide the good guys should be denied an opportunity so we can hold back a few bad guys.

A bow is a bow, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective that others. There are no special restrictive deffinitions as to what can legally be used as a bow.

A rifle is a rifle, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective than others. There are no special restrictive definitions as to what can be used as a rifle.

A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader, even though some (and some shooters) are way more "high tech" and effective than others. Why should there be any restrictive regulations of definitions as to what is a legal muzzleloader?

Well, if you put it that way... a gun is a gun. Some are way more high tech then others, why have different regulations for different guns?

BruceW · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2013, 05:53:14 PM »

I'm with Justin on this, although I'd go further; I'd like to see it specific to percussion, or even flintlock. Even just patched roundball. That'd eliminate those with 358win. performance.

I'd be quite happy with season/weapon specific draws as well. Lot's are complaining about draw times, well, this is one way to split it up and lower the priorities, and that includes bow guys. It's the logical, fair way to do it IMHO.

deerman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2013, 10:45:27 PM »

Our local club suggested an amendment to this resolution to change "Oct. 15 to Oct. 31" to "Dec. 1 to Dec. 15".

The vote was against the resolution unless it is so amended.

Lurch · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2013, 07:05:15 AM »

folks really should not get so hung up some of the terms that used to have a generalized meaning.

I hunt sometimes with a single shot rifle that was manufactured 150 years ago - it's lethal to maybe 50 yards.

Modern scoped inlines are far more lethal.

My 2 cents is we need to define "primitive" and modern when it comes to lethality, and in particular the distance that they are effective.

deerman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2013, 08:03:52 AM »

Quote from: Lurch on February 14, 2013, 07:05:15 AM

folks really should not get so hung up some of the terms that used to have a generalized meaning.

I hunt sometimes with a single shot rifle that was manufactured 150 years ago - it's lethal to maybe 50 yards.

Modern scoped inlines are far more lethal.

My 2 cents is we need to define "primitive" and modern when it comes to lethality, and in particular the distance that they are effective.

So what would that mean? A primitive archery season and a modern archery season. A primitive muzzleloader season and a modern muzzleloader season. A short range open sights rifle season and a long range scoped rifle season.

It would be interesting to see F&W do a poll at camp wainwright and see what weapons are being used by hunters in the season there. Specifically how many in the primitive season are using scoped inlines. And how many are using cross-bows.

Lurch · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2013, 09:44:32 AM »

Quote from: deerman on February 14, 2013, 08:03:52 AM

So what would that mean? A primitive archery season and a modern archery season. A primitive muzzleloader season and a modern muzzleloader season. A short range open sights rifle season and a long range scoped rifle season.

It would be interesting to see F&W do a poll at camp wainwright and see what weapons are being used by hunters in the season there. Specifically how many in the primitive season are using scoped inlines. And how many are using cross-bows.

It never ceases to amaze me how vain we are as a species.

I am going to go a get a 200" Ram with my bow. It will prove that I am "the sh!t" in the hunting community and gain me the admiration of hunting groupies worldwide.

After some time I get frustrated - it ain't as easy as I thought. I know - lets change the regulations to make my quest a bit more doable.
Perhaps we need to make some bow only zones, or get a draw in place for sheep. Yeah, now it is doable.

I think we need less regulations, and less caving to special interest. There is a reasonable separation between "primitive" and modern.

I don't have all the answers. Perhaps they will come to me while I am doing some "armed hiking" with my primitive centerfire. Maybe even a mentally challenged deer or Elk will commit suicide by getting within my 50 yard kill zone. I just hope it never gets to me so bad that I think I would need to lobby for season changes to satisfy my desire.

deerman · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2013, 08:11:26 AM »

I remember when I was younger hearing people say "Hunters use high power rifles with telescopic scopes and so the poor animals don't have a chance, it shouldn't be allowed".

And hunters would answer, "the modern rifle does give hunters the ability to make a clean kill on an animal but one still has to know something about animal behaviour and use some skill and hard work to get in range of an animal."

Now I hear hunters saying things like "I saw on TV a guy kill a deer with a muzzleloader at 600 yards, therefore they are no longer primitive and should not be treated as such."

On another note:

What really surprises me is when someone posts something that to me seems irrelevant and off topic and the next poster says "X2, good post, I agree..."

Author Topic: AF&GA resolution (Read 3193 times)

Tuc

Guido

walleyes

Tuc

Guido

Guido