The biggest problem is there will be no archery draw. So until there is an archery draw by itself just like antelope there is no archery anything in there zones they have chosen.
Well all 130 zones have not Bren counted in over 5 years. Numbers are way better than tag numbers. But if a zone has that little deer no one should be shooting them. I don't understand your second half your post. What are you saying? Cause you want to use a gun over a bow that gives you more rights than a guy with a bow?? SRD said 15% not me. So if rifle hunters get all tags and no separate draw for archery that sure as he'll is not 15%.
So some bow hunter shot a MD in zone 132 that would be over 15% would it not Justin? If the bow hunters are treated the same as rilfe hunters with the draws I want to be able to use my rifle in the end of August.
Was reading this thread and there is some info posted from the ABA reports we have sent out to our members to help them understand this issue/see how the numbers are arrived at and the formulas used. The ABA has been very involved in this issue (and many others) over the last bunch of years. Reps attend meetings with ESRD senior staff, local bios, other stakeholders (AGMAG, HFT). From reading the comments from JustinC I can sense his frustration. I think that frustration is shared by many bowhunters. The best way to deal with that frustration is to get the facts, become informed. That is what we/the ABA set out to do. I am sure JustinC is not an ABA member because many of his thoughts on the issue would change once he got the facts. For anyone wanting the full detailed reports on this issue, just send me an email (bcwatson@telusplanet.net) and I will forward them on.I will try and clarify some points made:1) This issue is about harvest share of antlered mule deer. Has nothing to do about deer populations/deer numbers. The responses to the online harvest surveys and these results are used to determine bowhunter harvests, general tag and draw harvest etc. There has been lots of discussion as to the accuracy of these numbers and we have tried to express those concerns.2) Bowhtr numbers have gone from 10000 to 17000 in the last 10 years. Our effectiveness as hunters has also gone up with the new technology in equipment, the info available via the internet, DVDs, TV. We are better hunters, there are more of us in the field. Our harvest rate will go up even though our success rate may stay fairly constant just due to the fact there are more of us in the field. Once we hit 15% harvest share, we are looked at and if the trend is consistant for a number of years, we will be put on draw.3) Going into the Dec 5 AGMAG meeting there was no support from senior ESRD staff for an archery only draw regime. after we made our presentation on the issue and discussed the need for this new idea, its merits we got preliminary support for the idea from other stakeholders. We now have a base to work forward in hopefully making it a reality.4) The contract with IBM is up soon and ESRD have 2 companies giving tenders. The new system will have lots of upgrades, be more user friendly, be able to handle more users. No new draw codes can be done with the old system -- they tried to re-instate a Non Res season-long waterfowl license for 2013 and the system couldnt do it. It could take 2 years to implement any new draw codes (which would include for the archery draw regime we (the ABA) would like to see happen). The Alberta RELM site and the way we do our draws, licensing etc is among the very best if not the best system in North America. This is based on info that some stakeholders have been getting in their meetings with other agencies from other jurisdictions. The upgarde will only make it better. I use it and have found it to be awesome.5) The ABA has taken the time over the last year to find out what bowhunters want. We formed a Mule Deer Committee. We had requested feedback from our members through our mass member email list (app 1200 email addresses), in our newsletter (out to over 1000 households 4x a year), from our website. I called all the "hunting" archery shops across the province to ask them for the thoughts of their customers. Almost 100% of the responses show bhtrs want an archery draw -- that is the message we are taking to ESRD and the other stakeholders.6) For the next 2 years (and longer if there is no support for an archery draw regime), you will need to have a general draw tag to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in those affected WMUs. The number of tags would increase slightly as the harvest share of the bowhunters would be added into the general draw. Would be different for every WMU. Could decrease wait times or may not -- each WMU could be different.7) The way I envision the archery draw to work is bowhunters would get 15% of the available harvest (based on the 15% harvest limit we have imposed now) -- WMU by WMU. The success rate of bhtrs would then determine the actual number of tags issued. This is how the draws for other species work now. There has been mention made that the archery draw would be given tags at a rate similar to the length of time it would take to draw in the general draw season (eg -- if it takes 6 years to draw a tag in the general draw, the bhtrs would get tags at a rate to keep them at a 6 year draw timeframe). I don't think that is the way to do it. The archery draw regime would now make a hunter pick the season he wants to bowhunt in. We had quite a few bhtrs say they would do the general draw because in lots of cases the length of season is longer (northern areas). The areas that have their archery season in Sept/Oct would be different though. If an archery draw is implemented, everyone would start at zero. All the species you need a draw for to hunt in archery seasons would now have a new archery draw code. You would only be able to hunt in the applicable archery season in a specific WMU. You would put in for either the archery draw or the general draw -- not both. Antelope would likely see this change. When asked at AGMAG what happens to the non-resident allocations for antlered mule deer, we were told they had ALL been pulled. The APOS Allocation Review for the next 5 year term is underway and the current term is over Dec 31.9) The landowner tag issue has seen much discussion the last couple of years and everyone is aware of the need for change. More discussions will be forthcoming and we will see what comes out of those. Lots of abuses and the intent of this initiative has been lost a long time ago.10) In those WMUs that are going to this draw idea, the archery season is still in place. You just need the draw to hunt antlered mule deer and can hunt the archery season with your bow AND the general season with whatever weapon you want.Hopefully this has helped to get the FACTS out and help lower the level of frustration out there. If anyone wants more detailed info I can send them the reports we have done up the last two years. Lots of info!!As has been mentioned, every bhtr out there should join the ABA. We had 1700 members last year, we are at 1600 this year. When we go to the meetings we do and can say we represent the bhtrs of Alberta with a membership of (say) 5000 out of the 17000 -- that is huge. Numbers definately help. By joining you can be part of the process, your voice will be heard and opinions will be taken to those that make the decisions. A couple of quotes I live by --- "If you are not part of the process, you are part of the problem". "The world is run by those who show up."
Ya fair is you hunting with a bow and me with my rifle. What are you good to 50 yards?? I know I am good to 1000. Is that fair? Why should You or I be grouped with the other?? They say there is to be 15% harvest for archers. Well giving 15% and putting it in with the others is taking about 30% opportunity away from every hunter period. Also wait times witch are a joke already do to over abundance of outfitter and landowner tags. Also if they put it in one draw there is no more archey tags in our province. That means we have 100% rifle tags. Which maybe one in 20 years will use it during an archery hunt. So I am and everybody should be avaunt this shit. Most of there info is flawed. I will post a link to a post that gives all info that makes it very clear that this is also another ploy to get rid of Albertans so more land owners and outfitters have less competition. Page 9 deer hunter posts all the stats of were all tags are really going. And who is really mismanaging our herds. http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=159850&page=9
I'm a rifle hunter only and have been waiting for 8 years to receive my mule buck draw. I think bow hunters, outfitters and landowners had a good kick at the cat over the years and it's time that the playing field becomes more even. I have spoken to wildlife biologists and they concur that the system is unjust, especially with landowners and outfitters having special status with mule deer bucks. I don't blame wildlife employee's in the field, they are only taking orders from the higher-ups and pressure from special groups such as people in agriculture and Fish and Game Clubs.Every year there are changes in the hunting regulations to better manage wildlife and to give hunting opportunities. If I don't get drawn in 2013 for mule deer buck, well than I can live with that because there are many other species to hunt in Alberta. I generally look at life in general that way (ie: look what you have instead of what you don't have/ the cup is half full).
Seriously you waited 8 years for your draw ! Well your just plain dumb then, nothing stopping from hunting every year, but yourself. When your mom stopped cutting up your food, who long did you wait to pick up a fork? You want an even playing field? Again no one stopping from joining the ranks, like everyone else did. Do you actually think that the majority of bowhunters only are archers, or was it a steady slow migration! Unless the regs have a rule why you can't bowhunt, there no reason to say there isn't a even playing field. I'm tired of rifle guys and their excuses. If they opened a hunting season for rope....guess what, guys would buy a rope and learn to hunt with it! well at least the ones that love hunting!
I think that you misunderstood what I said. I'm not really complaing, just happy that the playing field will be at an even situation. It really dosen't bother me that I don't get picked for mule deer buck, heck I could go north an hunt them with a general tag while I'm hunting whitetails. Like I said before, my glass is half full and have other species to hunt...............I'm thankful, are you? I'm just thankful that Alberta has mule deer hunting, where most provinces and territiories don't. I've killed mule deer and been on many mule deer kills and will probably will again in the future with my rifle. Final note: note complaining, only content that the playing field "might" be fair this coming hunting season.
Well I am going to lobby to get rid of all general rifle mule tags in this province as there should be no general rifle tags for mule deer. You want to play those games?? That is all you are doing. Poor me is all you are saying again like 98% of people that are for this. Like I said in my last post. Everybody looses opportunity and wait times will go through the roof. Great ideas guys.
It's always been fair ! I don't understand why you can't see that. Equal opportunity already exists . If you want an even playing field, limit rifle shots to 40 yards, then I would agree that everything should be even.
What are you waiting so long to draw in your zone? I cam tell you were to draw with a priority 3 and I bet you can shoot a 200"+ deer. So why is it you apply in a zone that takes do long?? Let's get the real facts on this. I know why.