Author Topic: New 2012 CWD map  (Read 9718 times)

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2013, 11:10:21 PM »
Is everyone just disagreeing about how to stop CWD? Culls in my opinion are not the answer, but at the same time I don't know enough about the subject. Any chance the "sides" in this discussion could reply with a single post, stating what they think is being handled incorrectly, and what should be done?

I do think we need more awareness about it, how to identify CWD, and how to adhere to the regulations in place now to help track it. In the next release of iHunter AB app, we will have some CWD specific information. We will show which zones CWD head submission is required, show locations for dropoff points, and include some general info. Will this be helpful at all?


What do you mean by "stop CWD"?  The cull of deer in the east was done to reduce the deer population density.  That is a logical step to stop the spread of any communicable disease.  Right now stopping or slowing the spread of CWD is the priority and there is research going on to find out if there can be a real STOP to CWD in the future.

Paul

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2013, 11:32:04 PM »
I have to agree that the srd really doesn't know how to deal with this. I also believe that cwd has existed as long as deer have roamed the earth, naturally with increased populations there will be a higher incidence but it's doesnt mean it's more epidemic. For example if you take a sample of a population a certain number will get cancer. If you increase or decrease the sample the amount of cancer cases will be directly relative to the size of the sample as a ratio.

The culling of deer does nothing to stop the disease, it shows up less because the population is lower, but the ratio likely remains constant.

I would surmise if the entire province was tested as vigorously as the south east wmus the ratio would be the same. You can't put alot of faith in people that allow antlerless harvesting of whitetails in areas which have been winterkilled and have high wolf predation.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 11:37:01 PM by Paul »

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2013, 11:12:01 AM »

Like so many issues, Paul, we can all have our opinions and assumptions and "I would surmise" ideas.

But this one in particular is something it seems none of us really know that much about.

I am glad that F&W did act fast when there was an apparent problem.

Speckle55

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2013, 10:01:38 PM »
To all Hunters/Albertans/Persons
1. Where in North America Has CWD been stopped and how .. Answer...New York Sate USA they used CDC protocol and contained the spread
2. What happens with any other disease .. how are they contained ..
3. Pine Beatle BC did nothing and Alberta is being proactive and doing controled burns and selective cutting, lastest control methods to control the spread
4. How does Alberta remain Rat free .. they contain any and all know sighting and pockets
5. In Colorado and Wyoming due to public pressure their programs were stopped and if you look at a map you can see the spread is still increasing in some areas and in others it has leveled out or the numbers of unglulates is starting to increase as the die off from CWD has done the same as a cull in reducing the rate with some valleys having a 25% or more infection rate
6. The science is still looking at many differn't ways to control or slow or stop the spread of any disease not just CWD and most rely on CDC protocol of containment to stop the spread look at what happen in all epidemics
7. all people understand why this issue is so hard to make the tuff choices to save the herds from them selfs but the CDC make those decissions and does not listen to the public. in our human diseases .. why are we not listening and acting in the same manner for our wildlife ...do you not care about all the other zone in Alberta that have 0 infection

i often wonder why people use un-informed special interest people to spread their theories when they have nothing else constructive to add but negative comments about the people in the know and working to find solutions to stop the spread and contain this disease/Cancer

 stick our heads in the sand it will go away is that the answer some are saying?

or lets be CDC wise and Proactive and make the tuff choice and control this disease(it started in one county in Colorado)


Food for Thought
David :)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/geographic_range.htm
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 10:15:21 PM by Speckle55 »
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Speckle55

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2013, 11:35:34 PM »
I have follow the lastest info on CWD from before it was in Canada(was told it would never come here) and still follow the lastest info at www.CWD-Info.org and other diseases like EHD and Blue Tongue etc as i get e-mails from all across the world and have no problem calling the scientific people and asking pertainate questions or doing some CSI to get my answers .. the lasts 18 years i have been injured and lots of time.. but hey i have talked to Bio's in Colorado and Montana /Alberta /Sask and looked in detail at study's from Germany and many other Universty's around North America and leading experts like Dr Val Giest (to bad we never listen to him in the mid 80's and left the Farmed Elk In Colorado) also Trent Bollinger lead CWD Canada

but hey i am open minded whats your take on CWD

David :) 



I will pick this apart tomorrow.  But not one point has any stance in this also your info from the states is incorrect.  But like I said I will pick it apart. I ask you and Duffy both. What do you personal know about any of this other than what SRD has brain washed you with?

People keep thinking cwd is going to disappear. Well sorry boys impossible just like your so called rats and raccoons. Lot more than your zero in Alberta.
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deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2013, 01:28:27 AM »
I have follow the lastest info on CWD from before it was in Canada(was told it would never come here) and still follow the lastest info at www.CWD-Info.org and other diseases like EHD and Blue Tongue etc as i get e-mails from all across the world and have no problem calling the scientific people and asking pertainate questions or doing some CSI to get my answers .. the lasts 18 years i have been injured and lots of time.. but hey i have talked to Bio's in Colorado and Montana /Alberta /Sask and looked in detail at study's from Germany and many other Universty's around North America and leading experts like Dr Val Giest (to bad we never listen to him in the mid 80's and left the Farmed Elk In Colorado) also Trent Bollinger lead CWD Canada

but hey i am open minded whats your take on CWD

David :)


Sounds like you probably know more about it than anyone else on this board.  But he will still "pick this apart tomorrow"  as he thinks he knows more about everything than anyone.

honkerhitter

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2013, 07:44:58 AM »
I'm not going to claim to know it all or be an expert, but there were definitely mistakes made prior to and during the intial cull. The biggest mistake being not having sask involved as all we done was to open up more habitat for higher risk deer out of Sask to come into Alberta. The other big mistake was the optics of how the cull was carried out , the BIOs and wildlife officers should be looked at as role models for conservation they really blew it . I have landowner customers in 2 of the cull zones that have zero respect for these guys strictly because of how the cull was handled.  They harassed  people going to and from thier homes or out to work in the fields they were rude and confrontational. They will never erase that image and these are non hunters.  Also burrying them in giant pits is contradictory to how a disease that lives in the soil should be handled , kinda like saying if a kid has chicken pocs the best place for him is in school with other kids.  Don't get me started on the spotlight shoots and helicopter snipers . 

You guys believe the cull worked, I still say the winter kill of 2010 did more naturally then any cull could.  How many healthy animals with good genetics were killed in the cull , winter kill takes the weak or sick big difference.
The past is past we can debate right or wrong till we are able in the face and not accomplish  much, I just hope mistakes of the past are not repeated.  As far as the cull goes it is on going just look at draw results where I live in 236 it has 3-4 times the tags for Muleys  as any other zone to the west. I would also be as bold to state that one of the real reasons to put Muleys on draw is to force bow hunters east if they want a general tag, but that is purely speculation .
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 07:47:23 AM by honkerhitter »
I'm from the country , and I like it that way!!!

Tuc

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2013, 09:09:48 AM »
Quote
Dr Val Giest (to bad we never listen to him in the mid 80's and left the Farmed Elk In Colorado)
Bang On!!!   (and it was S. Dakota)
Well I've been sitting back watching this one for awhile, seeing that you have one highly knowledgeable expert in your midst I figured CWD would have been cured by now.  ::)

Anyhow, it's my opinion that deer and elk farming, the import/export of animals to and from these farms, may be responsible for the spread of chronic wasting disease. Any area that has a high concentration of animals enclosed in a specific area shittin, pissin and druelling on one another has to spell disaster.

Another question, how are they keeping records for animals that are shipped in and out of states and provinces. Are they closely monitored by our governments. ( I mean thats if you think they know anything) Are the officials paying any attention to CWD statistics in and around the farms? I hope so....
 
Animals that are shipped in and out of farms, are they being blood tested for the disease? How strict and regulated are the rules for deer and elk farms? Strict enough? A few questions I have often wondered about.

What do you think a deer farmer will do if he see's symptons of CWD in his herd....a real hard one eh! I bet realeasing sick animals in the wild has happened more times then we wish to think about. What farmer wants to take the chance oif that animal contaminatining the soil, food and affecting rest of his herd, it's just much simplier to open the gate.

Here's a little food for thought:

Quote
Origins of CWD: The first case of CWD was seen in 1967 in a captive mule deer at the Foothills Wildlife Research Station (operated by the Colorado Dept. of Wildlife) in Ft. Collins and was attributed then by station employees [10] to close confinement of deer to former (scrapie) sheep pasture or to horizontal transmission from sheep allowed [9] into the pens. The shortest known incubation time in deer is 17 months, dating the exposure back to 1965-66 or earlier. Surplus does were released back into the wild after fawning in the facility; the first case in free-ranging wild deer was seen in 1981. Other infected animals were shipped to zoos (Denver, Toronto, Laramie), game farms (see below), and similar research facilities in Colorado and Wyoming.


Quote
In 2005, a white-tailed deer found dead adjacent to some farm buildings near the town of Nipawin in north-central Saskatchewan tested positive for CWD. This was the first case of CWD in this area despite previous surveillance in 2001 and 2002. Additional sampling in the area in 2005, 2006 and 2007 detected an additional 35 positive deer (7, 20 and 9 positives respectively) with an average prevalence of 2.6% (with years combined). During the winter of 2008 two elk were found dead west of Nipawin. Both animals were submitted to the CCWHC and tested positive for CWD, marking the first time CWD has been found in elk in the wild in Saskatchewan. Based on the necropsy findings it does not appear that these elk died of CWD.


Quote
While CWD appears to have been introduced into Canadian farmed elk through the importation of infected animals from a farm in South Dakota, later found to be infected with CWD, the origin of CWD in free-ranging Canadian cervids is unknown. Possible explanations include extension from infected farms to free-ranging cervids via accidental contact between farmed and wild cervids, or spontaneous emergence of a sporadic form of CWD in wild cervids.

We all know mule deer and elk are migratory animals, we all know CWD can be passed on from one species to the other and now in moose too.
I can't remember exactly when but I know it was recently that a moose hit by a car tested positive for CWD and I believe it was in Sask.

IMHO, culling or any other method of controlling CWD should start with eliminating deer and elk farming, then and only then, they may get a handle on this problem.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:27:43 AM by Tuc »

Speckle55

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2013, 09:27:48 AM »

Tuc here is the link to Moose in Alberta

David :)


http://srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWDinMooseAlberta-InfoSheet-A-Feb2013.pdf


Bang On!!!   (and it was S. Dakota)
Well I've been sitting back watching this one for awhile, seeing that you have one highly knowledgeable expert in your midst I figured CWD would have been cured by now.  ::)

Anyhow, it's my opinion that deer and elk farming, the import/export of animals to and from these farms, may be responsible for the spread of chronic wasting disease. Any area that has a high concentration of animals enclosed in a specific area shittin, pissin and druelling on one another has to spell disaster.

Another question, how are they keeping records for animals that are shipped in and out of states and provinces. Are they closely monitored by our governments. ( I mean thats if you think they know anything) Are the officials paying any attention to CWD statistics in and around the farms? I hope so....
 
Animals that are shipped in and out of farms, are they being blood tested for the disease? How strict and regulated are the rules for deer and elk farms? Strict enough? A few questions I have often wondered about.

What do you think a deer farmer will do if he see's symptons of CWD in his herd....a real hard one eh! I bet realeasing sick animals in the wild has happened more times then we wish to think about. What farmer wants to take the chance oif that animal contaminatining the soil, food and affecting rest of his herd, it's just much simplier to open the gate.

Here's a little food for thought:
 
 

We all know mule deer and elk are migratory animals, we all know CWD can be passed on from one species to the other and now in moose too.
I can't remember exactly when but I know it was recently that a moose hit by a car tested positive for CWD and I believe it was in Sask.
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Tuc

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2013, 09:31:26 AM »
Thanx Speckle, then it was in Alberta. It didn't say the year the moose was hit but I know it wasn't very long ago.

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2013, 09:35:52 AM »
Bang On!!!   (and it was S. Dakota)
Well I've been sitting back watching this one for awhile, seeing that you have one highly knowledgeable expert in your midst I figured CWD would have been cured by now.  ::)

Anyhow, it's my opinion that deer and elk farming, the import/export of animals to and from these farms, may be responsible for the spread of chronic wasting disease. Any area that has a high concentration of animals enclosed in a specific area shittin, pissin and druelling on one another has to spell disaster.

Another question, how are they keeping records for animals that are shipped in and out of states and provinces. Are they closely monitored by our governments. ( I mean thats if you think they know anything) Are the officials paying any attention to CWD statistics in and around the farms? I hope so....
 
Animals that are shipped in and out of farms, are they being blood tested for the disease? How strict and regulated are the rules for deer and elk farms? Strict enough? A few questions I have often wondered about.

What do you think a deer farmer will do if he see's symptons of CWD in his herd....a real hard one eh! I bet realeasing sick animals in the wild has happened more times then we wish to think about. What farmer wants to take the chance oif that animal contaminatining the soil, food and affecting rest of his herd, it's just much simplier to open the gate.

Here's a little food for thought:
 
 

We all know mule deer and elk are migratory animals, we all know CWD can be passed on from one species to the other and now in moose too.
I can't remember exactly when but I know it was recently that a moose hit by a car tested positive for CWD and I believe it was in Sask.


That is bang on.  And that is the reason for the cull.  reduce the deer density and it should reduce the opportunities that deer will come into close contact.

The number of deer tested from the cull that had CWD is not important.  The purpose of the cull was not to kill diseased deer.

I believe most of the deer that tested negative, the meat was salvaged from.  Those that went into the famous "pit" were deer that had been gut-shot or did not get dressed soon enough.

Shooting the deer over bait, with spot lights, from a helicopter were all legal activities for those whose job it is to manage wildlife.  Putting out huge numbers of tags was part of the cull strategy and was a good and effective thing.  The hard winter that greatly reduced deer numbers was a blessing .



Did you hear about the AS member that thought CWD stood for Can We Drink?  Its a joke.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:37:47 AM by deerman »

Tuc

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2013, 09:44:37 AM »
Quote
That is bang on.  And that is the reason for the cull.  reduce the deer density and it should reduce the opportunities that deer will come into close contact


Deerman, I agree with you....but.... you have to go to the source of the problem first, otherwise we only put a band aid on it. The kicker is, trying to convince the government to eliminate a multi-million dollar industry that puts big $$ in their pockets too. Probably not going to happen and the only thing we sportsman (groups) can do is lobby, lobby, lobby.

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2013, 10:21:48 AM »


Deerman, I agree with you....but.... you have to go to the source of the problem first, otherwise we only put a band aid on it. The kicker is, trying to convince the government to eliminate a multi-million dollar industry that puts big $$ in their pockets too. Probably not going to happen and the only thing we sportsman (groups) can do is lobby, lobby, lobby.

I didn't adress some of your other points in the post above.

F&W used to be in charge of Game Farms in Alberta.  Then some years ago some genius in government figured that it was "farming" so the Agriculture department should be responsible for it.  My brother worked for F&W for awhile helping gather the data together and said there were a lot of inconsistency and missing data on animals and such.

So records and monitoring animals and movements is not well taken care of, I'd say.

I am not sure what the future of game farming will be in Alberta.  The Hunt Farms in Sask. is probably keeping some of them in business.  Antler velvet and breeding animals is no longer such a big $ factor with them I don't think.

Tuc

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 10:43:03 AM »
Justin, first off I'm going to ask if you know how to write proper and that includes spelling too. Next, why can you not make a post without labelling somebody or belittleing them. Do you think you are the only informative authority around here and noone else's opinion, but your own mattters????? You just TOTALLY amaze me (along with a few other things that I won't mention)...

Opinions are like azzholes, everybody has one and they are entitled to express theirs. You, Me, Deerman, Speckle or any other member on this board.

Question: Do you see other people belittleing your posts. Do they not allow you to speak your mind without saying you are on crack, drunk or whatever. Do you ever post without stopping, re-reading and thinking about what you are saying before you hit the "Post Button" ? Do you like other members and guests to think of you as an arrogant, know-it-all young man, and I'm sure they do. Huh!

Get the f-in chip off your shoulder and write your thoughts without calling others names. You are no good for this forum unless you change your ways. People just don't want to deal with your attitude. You are back in full force again , no different from before and I can see it's just a matter of time before you get your azz punted out of here for good.

It's easy, stick to the topic, keep the names and labelling out of it. Contribute to the forum which I'm sure you can if you try hard enough. Be respectfull......

Justin, we are all legends in our own mind but you'd be surprise how many of us can read beneath the exterior and see the real person.

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 12:54:48 PM »
Justin, first off I'm going to ask if you know how to write proper and that includes spelling too. Next, why can you not make a post without labelling somebody or belittleing them. Do you think you are the only informative authority around here and noone else's opinion, but your own mattters????? You just TOTALLY amaze me (along with a few other things that I won't mention)...

Opinions are like azzholes, everybody has one and they are entitled to express theirs. You, Me, Deerman, Speckle or any other member on this board.

Question: Do you see other people belittleing your posts. Do they not allow you to speak your mind without saying you are on crack, drunk or whatever. Do you ever post without stopping, re-reading and thinking about what you are saying before you hit the "Post Button" ? Do you like other members and guests to think of you as an arrogant, know-it-all young man, and I'm sure they do. Huh!

Get the f-in chip off your shoulder and write your thoughts without calling others names. You are no good for this forum unless you change your ways. People just don't want to deal with your attitude. You are back in full force again , no different from before and I can see it's just a matter of time before you get your azz punted out of here for good.

It's easy, stick to the topic, keep the names and labelling out of it. Contribute to the forum which I'm sure you can if you try hard enough. Be respectfull......

Justin, we are all legends in our own mind but you'd be surprise how many of us can read beneath the exterior and see the real person.



TUC I do agree with much of what you have said here but I think you should have said this in a PM not out in the open here.  Justin may have felt "spanked" in public and so responded in a defensive manner. 

I have tried lately not to respond directly to his posts but to converse with other posters or to the members as a whole.  I do not want to be accused of "chasing" Jason off as I was the last time he took a holiday.

He is passionate and opinionated but just lacks self control and the ability to communicate his thoughts in a reasonable manner.


With that said we all have to learn what the limits are and live within them or suffer the consequences.

JIMMY 808

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 12:56:15 PM »
My wife was a nurse at FH in Calgary at the time of the F&W deer shoot em up.  A few injures buy the members of F&W wrecked pickups and such. 

deerman

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35:36 PM »

I prefer not to answer you as I find your posts pointless, disrespectful, nonsensical.

I don't see that you have "proved" anything so how would I prove you wrong?

I have worked for Fish & Wildlife and that is how I know that most people who work there are hard working and dedicated to protecting wildlife and providing opportunity for anglers and hunters.  They do not always get it right but they most often try to do the best.

My opinion of F&W is not based on any "loyalty" to the outfit but from the knowledge I have about the people and how they operate.

I don't know or care who you work for but I woud assume it has no bering on your views of this issue.

Have a good one.

Speckle55

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2013, 02:37:01 PM »
JustinC .. this will answer your question about me if i worked for SRD no i don't nor have i ever work for SRD.. and i have been injured for the last 18 years and not worked and now retired .. i worked in the Pulp Mill(Water Treatment Oper at last) for 21 years before being injured off the job and just pulled my pension last year

I am a active Hinton Fish and Game member(Fishchair 23yrs) and outdoors nut still hunting and fishing(reduced) and have held yearly Provincal records(fishing and hunting) and line class World Records in fishing and Ice Fishing allthough they are from the 80's .. one is still current which is a 12#13oz Brook Trout 8# line class from Malinge Lake Jasper National Park in June 28 1984

also if you need more info to read on CWD just pm me your questions? ...  i will answer you or send you links to answer you.. i am still learning as we all are so maybe you can inform me

David :)

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Speckle55

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2013, 08:32:33 PM »
JustinC .. don't just read about CWD read about TSE's as a prion is what CWD is about and the issue is how to control the spread ..don,t look at the USA ...look to Europe as they have a handle on how to control the spread and have implemented CDC practices to stop the contamation of other areas by stopping the movement of people/animals and equipment from one area to another as they have had Scabbies for years and have dealt with Mad Cow and CJD etc and have more people affected by getting CJD so public pressure was on the medical field to stop the spread .. if this CWD jumps spieces again and started infecting humans then you would see CDC protocol being used in North America..

in the end CWD is fatal

you have to stop the spread or it will jump spieces as it has to Moose now

in labs it has jumped to other spieces

what happens in Alberta is up to us but it will affect my childrens hunting opportunites please keep it at or close to the border or we will be like Colorado in 30 years

right now we have 12 WMU's effected... lets keep it at 12 any way we can and stop the spread(Europe)

Food for Thought

David :)

http://srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWDPositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Mar15-2013.pdf
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 08:36:03 PM by Speckle55 »
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Sonny

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Re: New 2012 CWD map
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2013, 09:07:22 PM »
Speckle55 for the win... ;D