Author Topic: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!  (Read 1901 times)

sheepguide

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2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« on: March 25, 2012, 04:39:47 AM »
I honestly must say in my opinion was a succes!!! Found out lots of sheep info and ideas on the future of sheep hunting! Support was good but as usual the big talkers seem to skip. Had a good evening with a bunch of forum members from a few sites. Even had a couple beers with the enemy! LOL Would have been nice to see a bunch of AS guys there but there wasn't many that made it. Hope for next year even more come out to show their support.
SG
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 09:43:40 AM by sheepguide »
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Springer

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 07:03:49 AM »
You did wash your hands when you got home right.. ;D ;)
I sure had a Great time as well SG. and look forward to attending the next one .
It would have been nice to hang out til the very end but this morning for work came way to early..
It was great to meet and shake hands with some AO and AS guys .

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 03:39:50 PM »
Hey Phil if you would have stayed you would have had to drive straight from the Capri to work!!!! LOL we got home at 5:30am! Ended up in the Wildsheep hospitality room after the Banquet. Sure feeling that today! :(
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Springer

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 11:08:05 PM »
 Man i would have loved to stay, especially with that long roll of drink tickets you still had in your pocket !! :o
 I saw your facebook post when i was having morning coffee before heading out and you were just heading home.. What a great bunch of guys we partied with ! Not sure if Ken remembers but i just may get on a trail ride with his horses and gear this year.
 Man your buddy builds some sweet rifles as well Sheepguide!!
To bad for guys like Walking Buffalo that had to make the Trek back to Calgary that night ... I could have bs'd with him a lot more. What a great contribution he will be to the Wild Sheep Foundation. his opinion is very respected.

walking buffalo

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »
Had a great time, got F&W to commit to sending me the Sheep data for public release, and met a bunch of great guys and girls.

I'm sorry I had to miss out on the real party, but duty called early on Sunday. Next year I promise to be hung over in the morning.  ;D

nube

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 07:14:25 PM »
Had a great time, got F&W to commit to sending me the Sheep data for public release, and met a bunch of great guys and girls.

I'm sorry I had to miss out on the real party, but duty called early on Sunday. Next year I promise to be hung over in the morning.  ;D

What sheep data?  I have always wanted what zones and drainages the rams are getting killed in every year.  They always turn me down when I ask ;D

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 08:37:22 PM »
I know it wasn't directed at me but,,,

Nube to start you should try and make it to the seminars. It's a great chance to hear info and voice concerns. I know that people have other commitments but in the years I've been attending most of the biggest voices about sheep hunting on the forums have nothing to do with the sheep foundation. They put all this on to help inform the public and raise money for sheep and many that argue or complain on the situation of or mountain sheep do minimal to do anything about it.
And as for data well we were told outright it will be all given to the public in the near future. But to cover a couple topics they still go with the overall population being stable. Up in some areas and down in others. Harvest age averages have risen in the last few years but mainly due to rams reaching legal at older ages. Very few 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 year old rams being harvested any more as rams are taking longer to reach legal size. They also confirmed that horn base and length sizes are getting smaller. They also confirmed that overall harvest numbers are down over the last 30yrs. From around 220 in the 80's to I believe just over 160 this past season. Hope I got them numbers right.

From what they stated is that a Province wide draw is not in the near future. But there are changes and looks like full curl in some more zones is a possibility and longer wait times was also talked about. There was a few more possibilities but I think these are the top ones.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 08:46:35 PM by sheepguide »
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nube

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 10:37:57 PM »
I don't think the rams harvest being down this year had anything to do with numbers of animals out there.  I had a real hard time finding any sheep this year it was so hot out.  We killed the only 2 rams I found and they were down in the creek drinking and they sat there huffing and puffing with heavy breathing they were so hot.  I suspect because of weather sheep were hard to kill this year. 

You are right, I do need to get involved more.  I had a couple things on my plate but probably could have driven down for a couple hours of fun.  Not much fun when you have to drive a few hours for a few hours of fun though. 

I am not sure if I am excited for change or not for sheep right now.  It could make for some good hunting in the future but it could also end up shutting it down for a lot of us guys that like to get out every year and hunt sheep. 

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2012, 11:01:58 PM »
As a whole Nube the ram harvest has dropped over the last thirty years. So one years weather hasn't really changed anything. The trend looks to me like it fluctuates about 10 to 15 rams from year to year. That change could be represented by weather but still an overall decline.

Oh and like I stated if what they say is true and stick by their words "it doesn't look like a draw is needed yet and that change is a last resort and is probably down the road 10yrs if at all.
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sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 10:37:05 AM »
I think there is more to it Darcy. You take numbers of hunter that have increased and huntable area has went way down. That is the biggest reason for less animals.They are forced out of huntable areas to the santuaries. Then you add all the predators and wild hourses and others competeing with them for food.. I dont buy all of the crap that they are saying about age stucture of legal rams and all the other whooy... That study is flawd from the start as they have introduced new sheep from all over so how can that eaven make sence to that study. Also you did not have to regester a ram back in the day so why is it they have all of this info prior to registration???? Also back in the day you could also hunt rams in November.Big difference to now. Now only Natives can hunt then other than a couple draws.....

Again Ill say the same thing as I said to Nube. Come show your support and things will be a little clearer.

Also I have to change a number I reported as I have the numbers they handed me in front of me now as I stated 233 in 1980. Total ram harvest have been as follows,

1990 - 233        2000 - 185        2009 - 157      2010 - 180     2011 - 168

Now Justin
For one they produced tag numbers and tag sales hasnt increased at all and is actually down and actually could be a small portion of why harvest numbers are down.

Tag sales are as follows,

1990 - 2309        2000 - 1840      2009 - 2245      2010 - 2280      2011 - 2216

Second you talk of all the huntable area being way down? Where would this be in the last 30years?
Peter Lougheed provincal park was 1977, Whitegoat wilderness area was 1961, Ghost River Wilderness Area was 1967, Siffleur Wilderness area was 1961, Sheep River Provincial Park and Bluerock Wildland Park in 2001(but with large die offs was desperatly needed I beleive), WMU 429 was recently closed but was not producing more than 1 ram every few years.
On top of that one zone has became full curl in the south, part of 408 became draw for archery but is still being hunted. If I have missed any huge tracts of land that has been closed and has hindered hunter please feel free to post! I didnt say anything about the mines and that is because I personaly feel they are helping sheep hunting and many of these areas werent sheep habitat prior to the mine reclemation.

So unless im missing something there has been very little area closed since prior to 1980 and most was prior to 1970. And if you would have been there Justin you would have seen that they broke it down to many areas and was showing some areas to be stable, some to be increasing slightly but most being lower. Many of the areas dropping actually have zero protected lands and zero closed recently to justafy the decrease in harvest.

And id love to see where the info you have on this November hunting as that would have been along long time ago as at least 1965 and later the guys ive talked to this morning  said there was no November season that they could remember and they have been hunting it that long and at minimum it was far before numbers started to change.

Oh and to comment on you saying they have introduced new sheep from all over? Are you talking transplants? Because if so there has been minimal in province transplants( I beleive it was just to two or three areas and two were Ram Mountain and Sheep River). Again all the transplants were covered at the seminars.

Registrations have been for at least the last 35yrs as my Dads book ram was I beleive 1985 and it is plugged. So they do have a pretty long base to look back on. This includes length, base circumfrance and age. So now im sure you will say they dont know how to age and all that stuff but hey they have never changed so any info they have will be flawed just the same so any dropps will be the same over an average.

There are alot of different situations affecting bighorn hunting and they are really trying to address these(habitat with many burns planned and being carried out, predators but is a very tough situation with all the bleeding hearts out there against us) prior to putting a full draw and restricting hunting and is why they are looking at full curl in the areas of concern or wait periods after harvest so as hunters will still be able to get a general tag and hunt every year. From what I took from them was that they are doing as much as possible to keep people out there hunting. If they werent they will just go straight draw accross the board.
There has been two consecutive studies by two groups the last two years and bothe have concured with each other.

I could also make a statment that will make the ram populations in even worse shape than what them studies show. They dont fly the parks and claim studys dont count park rams. But they do winter studies right? So any sheep hunter of any knowledge knows that many sancuary or park rams migrate to wintering grounds on the huntable areas. So now they are looking to have at least 5% of the population as leagal sheep. So they go out mid winter do a count and get I beleive it was roughly 3.4% average. Now come summer most of them park sheep head back to the parks. So now where is the huntable population at? Id guess less than there winter count for sure!!!!

And with Native hunting. Well a few zones have areas that have a portion hunted by natives but if you look at there maps the areas of biggest concern actually have no native harvest. As I know very few native sustinace hunters that will get back into zones with no vehicle access. But it is for sure an issue that needs to be delt but not a factor that would drop province wide harvest rates.

Im not a guy that beleives alot of the studies but these are showing me exactly what ive been saying and what many guys I respect as sheep hunters are saying. And with that just look at Outfitters success. Its also been dropping and in many of the main SMA's and they are not are having a tough time killing  larger rams and having to harvest just legal rams if they harvest anything at all. When these guys are having a tougher time its a sure sign that there are issues( oh and before you jump about outfitters they will be reduced at the same percentage as residents with any changes and that was told to me right from an outfitter yesterday from a letter he received and talks they have been in).

Anyways id suggest that anyone that doesnt agree with these studies and want to voice their opinion to stop sitting at home and join some associations that are fighting to keep sheep hunting around and that are trying to work on the predator issues. And at least show up for these information seminars and voice your concerns and questions directly.

Again just my thoughts and ideas and hopefully a little info for others. Im just glad they are working for an alternate resolution then a draw as it would have been alot less of an issue for them to just put in a draw but as of now they seem to have the hunters intrest in mind and we will be able to still be in the field every year.

SG
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:54:22 AM by sheepguide »
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walking buffalo

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 11:35:01 AM »
Nube, 

 I asked for the recent sheep survey numbers including legal ram percentages and the data for horn size. I know that the data will not include kill locations.

 While being given kill locations sounds great at first, personally, it would take away from the joys of sheep hunting. As you know, learning where the rams are the hard way, through boot leather and boozing up the oldtimers, is a big part of the joy and challenge that makes this hunt so much fun



.


I know it wasn't directed at me but,,,

Nube to start you should try and make it to the seminars. It's a great chance to hear info and voice concerns. I know that people have other commitments but in the years I've been attending most of the biggest voices about sheep hunting on the forums have nothing to do with the sheep foundation. They put all this on to help inform the public and raise money for sheep and many that argue or complain on the situation of or mountain sheep do minimal to do anything about it.
And as for data well we were told outright it will be all given to the public in the near future. But to cover a couple topics they still go with the overall population being stable. Up in some areas and down in others. Harvest age averages have risen in the last few years but mainly due to rams reaching legal at older ages. Very few 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 year old rams being harvested any more as rams are taking longer to reach legal size. They also confirmed that horn base and length sizes are getting smaller. They also confirmed that overall harvest numbers are down over the last 30yrs. From around 220 in the 80's to I believe just over 160 this past season. Hope I got them numbers right.

From what they stated is that a Province wide draw is not in the near future. But there are changes and looks like full curl in some more zones is a possibility and longer wait times was also talked about. There was a few more possibilities but I think these are the top ones.


General comments on the sheep status is the first problem that needs to be addressed. That's why I requested the data. We need to stop generalizing the issues as being a province wide concern when they are not.


 To clarify a few of your comments;

Quote
  Harvest age averages have risen in the last few years but mainly due to rams reaching legal at older ages. Very few 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 year old rams being harvested any more as rams are taking longer to reach legal size.

 None of this has been shown to be true.

 Average age of harvested rams has increased from 6.7 to 7.5 years over 35 years (1975-2010). The average age of harvested rams is only increasing in half of the SMAs. The others are stable or decreasing.
This is a long term trend, not somethng that has happened over the last few years.
Hunters selecting for older rams alone can account for this trend.
In the end, THIS IS A GOOD THING! We want the rams to be older.


 The proportion of 4-5 year old rams harvested has decreased from 25% to 12% of the harvest. again from 1975-2010. This means that on average there was less than ONE young ram (0.54) in the harvest per year over the 35 years.

The proportion of young rams in the harvest is only occuring in 6/10 SMAs.

Increased hunter selection towards older rams can easily account for this.
I know quite a few guys who eat their tags every year after passing up young rams. You may know some too.  ;)


There has been no evidence shown to prove that the rams are taking longer to become older. Brooming loss is NOT accounted for in the measurments.


Quote
  They also confirmed that horn base and length sizes are getting smaller.

F&W stated a decrease in horn length and base size in only 3/10 SMAs. One area shows a decrease in length, bases are stable.
 6/10 areas show stable to increasing horn length and base size!


Quote
They also confirmed that overall harvest numbers are down over the last 30yrs.   

Harvest numbers are right on the long term average, only half of the SMAs show a decrease in harvest, the other half are up or stable.

Weather and disease issues can be seen in the harvest data. These incidents are mirrored to periods of localized lower harvest rates. Outfitter harvest also shows a trend to be effected by these conditions as well as the world economy.



We need to be careful to not read to much into generalized comments.

Before coming to any conclusions, lets confirm if and where there is a concern, then figure out what is causing the problem. Then it is the time for discussing possible hunting restrictions. Doing things in reverse may cause long term damage to hunting opportunity without actually solving the problem.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 12:00:13 PM by walking buffalo »

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 12:42:24 PM »

 To clarify a few of your comments;

 None of this has been shown to be true.

What would be needed to show what they are showing in these studies to be true?

 Average age of harvested rams has increased from 6.7 to 7.5 years over 35 years (1975-2010). The average age of harvested rams is only increasing in half of the SMAs.

And right from there mouth average age has increased due to fewer 4.5 to 5.5yr old rams being harvested, And depending on SMA can reflect on the largest protion of harvested rams( keep in mind the areas showing the concern are the largest producing SMA's).

The others are stable of decreasing.
This is a long term trend, not somethng that has happened over the last few years.
Hunters selecting for older rams alone can account for this trend.
In the end, THIS IS A GOOD THING! We want the rams to be older.

Yes you are right this would be a great thing but like you say this is not prooven and could be caused buy hunters being selective or them rams not reaching legal by 4.5 and 5.5yrs of age. We want rams to be harvested at older levels but from the last 2 years of studies they both say turning legal age is increasing and that to me isnt good.  

 The proportion of 4-5 year old rams harvested has decreased from 25% to 12% of the harvest. again from 1975-2010. This means that on average there was less than ONE young ram (0.54) in the harvest per year over the 35 years.

if younger aged rams reaching legal status has dropped by over 50% as you stated  can show a trend of rams reaching legal at an later age. Or hunters being more selective. If its hunters being selective thats great if rams are taking longer to reach legal then its a change that should be looked at. And if it has dropped from 25% of harvest which is 58 rams in 1990 (233 total rams harvested) to 12% which is 20 for 2011 (168 rams harvested) that shows a significant change, and if you are correct then all these legal rams should be out there and guys should be seeing legal 4.5 and 5.5yr old rams on the hills and from what guys are indicating and what studies show as the percentage of the population as legal rams contradicts that people just being more selective. Still see a ton of just legal tipped rams throughout the forums each year. The only way this can be relected is to have profile pics of every ram killed and an age then compare what rams are lamb tipped and young and just legal as apposed to broomed and just legal but older

The proprtion of young rams in the harvest is only occuring in 6/10 SMAs.

Yep 60% of the SMA. Which probably include 80% of sheep habitat as the ones included are the largest and produce the highest percentage of rams in the province.

Increased hunter selection towards older rams can easily account for this.
I know quite a few guys who eat their tags every year after passing up young rams. You may know some too.  ;)

Be great if this was truley the case but nothing has been posted to document or show this. I still see a tone of just legal rams being harvested each year. Just look at the 2 Nube got last year.

There has been no evidence shown to prove that the rams are taking longer to become older. Brooming loss is NOT accounted for in the measurments.

Nope takes the same length of time to get "older"! And brooming loss wont have changed over the last 35yrs it will be a relativly stable occurance and is very minimal in the lower age half of harvested rams. This evidence will affect all the past year statistics  and drop/increase in age and and size differences from now to 35yrs ago will all have the same affect from brooming.
 
F&W only stated a decrease in horn length and base size in only 3/10 SMAs. One are shows a decrease in length, bases are stable. 6/10 areas show stable to increasing horn length and base size!

Id have to see them numbers again as I dont recall it being up in that many areas.

Harvest numbers are right on the long term average, only half of the SMAs show a decrease in harvest, the other half are up or stable.

Harvest numbers are down almost 65rams per year since 1990 as a province average not right on and in a harvest level of under 200 sheep per year now that is a significant loss to resident hunters. Thats far from stable as a province! And yes some areas are stable. And that is why they are looking at full curl and such in certain zones to target areas of concern. When you look at SMA 1 + 2 as being stable and say 4A, B and C as decreasing its a huge difference. SMA 4 has minimum twice( probably more) the sheep habitat and many time higher sheep harvest numbers so when that region is decreasing it has a huge effect on sheephunting.

Weather and disease issues can be seen in the harvest data. These incidents are mirrored to periods of localized lowere harvest rates. Outfitter harvest also shows a trend to be effected by these conditions as well as the world economy.

Weather and disease, True but what do we do if that is the true cause? Just keep hunting them as hard as we always have?

World Economy, I hate to say but most top sheep outfitters still book 100% of there tags or an equal amount as each year even with the world economy and there harvest rates and such have still changed.



We need to be careful to not read to much into generalized comments.

Before to coming to any conclusions, lets confirm if and where there is a concern, then figure out what is causing the problem. Then is the time for discussing possible hunting restrictions. Doing things in reverse may cause long term damage to hunting opportunity without actually solving the problem.

When will there be an agreement between all studies, thoughts, ideas and personal opinion to actualy decide when there is an issue or problem? Once there is an irreversable decline or some situation like that? If we wait for that to happen then we may as well just give up and open things up and giver shit!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 12:49:32 PM by sheepguide »
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sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 12:54:20 PM »
Whats your take on only one SMA reaching their population goal of 5% of the population and that being Cadomin? All the rest are at below(3-4% average) with some in the south as low as 2%. The only ones approching the line are in the north( Willmore and Torrens) and these zones have over the last 5 to 10years seen a large influx of hunters so these numbers could be in for a change!
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MAV

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 01:33:11 PM »
Good discussion guys, glad to see a couple of smart involved individuals getting up there and taking part in the discussions and then sharing that with us. As has been stated we all have to get involved and get educated on what's going on to make sure we don't a) get side slapped by something unrealistic and b) make sure we don't cause a problem by being asleep at the wheel.

SG your last reply to WB was a key statement...

"When will there be an agreement between all studies, thoughts, ideas and personal opinion to actually decide when there is an issue or problem? Once there is an irreversible decline or some situation like that? If we wait for that to happen then we may as well just give up and open things up and giver shit!

That right there is a key issue in most dealings with govt. and part of the problem here is personal agenda. Somewhere along the line hunters became the problem. whether this is true or not it has to be based on the facts, but this was not the case as recently as the end of the sheep season. The fact that they are now looking at all aspects of  herd management and the Sheep Management Plan is back in vogue is encouraging and if they just follow that and try and keep agenda's out of the mix then there will not be many problems.

They also will at some point have to reinfuse the department with some cash to get out there and monitor the herd (not only sheep) that is key and one of the many issues when it comes time to make a decision. If you don't have good info you can not make a good decision.

Finally it just seems that we are continually reinventing the wheel. Geist and Wishart and a lot of the old boys of wildlife management made key inroads regarding sheep management quite some time ago but it seems every new generation needs to flex their new knowledge to justify themeselves and I think that is where we are at now. New knowledge is great and needed but not at the expense of sound past knowledge.

If your are referring to the graph in the PP that showed the low numbers of less than 5% in SMA's virtually across the province you have to view those numbers as presented. Those were 40 year averages of each SMA. If you take the SMA that included 400 where the die offs virtually eliminated mature rams for some time leaving 0 in the column then you can see that the averages will be quite low. In fact a buddy crunched some numbers and if you could increase the average by .5% (that's one half %) per year the spread sheet wasn't big enough to get the number over 5%. If you increased it by 1% every year it would take 16 years to get the number over 5%. On the ground however you would be looking at over 20% of the population being a mature rams. There is a lot of info and stats in the presentation that are suspect when it comes to figuring out what's going on and that is the reason the raw data that generated these graphs needs to be presented.

Any way hope to be a part of this discussion as it is near and dear to me. Some year I won't be calving when the banquet is on hopefully.
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sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 01:41:09 PM »

If your are referring to the graph in the PP that showed the low numbers of less than 5% in SMA's virtually across the province you have to view those numbers as presented. Those were 40 year averages of each SMA. If you take the SMA that included 400 where the die offs virtually eliminated mature rams for some time leaving 0 in the column then you can see that the averages will be quite low. In fact a buddy crunched some numbers and if you could increase the average by .5% (that's one half %) per year the spread sheet wasn't big enough to get the number over 5%. If you increased it by 1% every year it would take 16 years to get the number over 5%. On the ground however you would be looking at over 20% of the population being a mature rams. There is a lot of info and stats in the presentation that are suspect when it comes to figuring out what's going on and that is the reason the raw data that generated these graphs needs to be presented.

Yep that's is all true but in the last two yearly population studies SMA are still not above or at 5% of the yearly population  goal and is why they still have concern not just because of long term averages. Or so they say anyways! And the part that worries me is that they count in the winter and say this doesn't include park sheep but I guarantee some percentage of rams counted as legal rams in the winter are migratory rams that are never in the huntable population come hunting season as many sheep from the parks winter on the province side of that park boundary.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 01:52:37 PM by sheepguide »
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MAV

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »
There must have been a couple of new additions to the power point.

Now this becomes curious for me as I was told that the numbers in other areas besides Cadomin were also above 5%.

The one thing I see with virtually all those interested in this topic is the concern for the herd and I think we have to be always thinking in those terms. That is why I'm curious with the presentation of just one SMA being above 5% because what I was told in an area with a different management strategy that I personally think could end all our problems the population "Has never been better". My hopes were that because of this the fix would be simple with just a short time of pain finding a legal ram.

In any event it is good to see SRD putting off the draw for the time being and looking at all options.
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MAV

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 01:53:13 PM »
Further to your post about park rams on winter ranges, one of the good parts about that is that if that is the case these rams are then available for breeding purposes and in fact will be able to mitigate any genetic dilution issues they have.

“Things which matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least”
         Goethe

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 01:59:28 PM »
If populations were all at 5% or better then there would be zero talk of changes. They would be happy with them numbers.
I hunt sheep to see over the next mountain not to measure the next trophy!

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nube

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 05:37:58 PM »
Darcy when was the 3/4 rule for sheep changed?  Maybe that is why the 1980 numbers were so high.  It used to be legal back about then to shoot less than a 4/5 curl ram.  Just a thought.

sheepguide

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Re: 2012 wild sheep banquet!!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 06:02:45 PM »
It was in 1968 Nube that it went from 3/4 to 4/5.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:24:49 PM by sheepguide »
I hunt sheep to see over the next mountain not to measure the next trophy!

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