Author Topic: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.  (Read 975 times)

walleyes

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Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« on: July 06, 2011, 10:54:35 AM »
OK guys & gals rather than high jacking Chris's thread lets discuss it here.

Whats everyones experience when it comes to using either fresh bait or the manafuctured baits. Personely over time I havn't had the best of luck with the Gulp products or any of them. But to be fair I gave them very little effort and its been a while since I tried any of it. Personely I am a huge bait fisherman probably 90% of my fishing for any species when legal is done with fresh bait. Whether it be worms, leeches, monnows or grubs of many types. Its just it seems to me that nothing beats the real thing. When it comes to walleye fishing I have seen times when a leech will out perform a shiner but the majority of the time a jig tipped minnow will out do about anything drug through the water for them. Mind you I have found in the south that at times its hard to beat a leech or worm drug on a bottom bouncer.

Whats everyones opinions on it ??

Waxy

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 11:16:46 AM »
It all depends on the situation and the bite to my mind.  The artificial stuff shines in two situations -

Reaction bites - trolling spinners with bottom bouncers, tipping a crank, slow death, etc... - the Gulp stuff will often work just as well, and if it's kinda snaggy or the action is pretty good, it's way easier to keep the bait on and keep fishing. 

Hot bites - If you're on a lake like PCR, CVR, Pigeon, etc..., I've seen very little difference in the number of bites between artificial minnows and the real thing.  I've even seen the Gulp Alive minnows outperform the real thing at times on PCR and CVR when the bite is good.  The real thing is usually better, but artificial lasts way longer so you spend more time fishing than putting on a minnow, and in the end, costs a lot less than real minnows.

Other than that, I use good quality live bait, and when it's tournament time, artificial isn't even an option.  There is absolutely no replacement for a lively leech on the end of a rig or a jig, and there are times when real crawlers or minnows are all the fish will take.  I think fishing with artificial bait is a skill that can be learned to improve its effectiveness, but's a pretty rare situation in my experience where artificial bait can compete with the real thing when finesse fishing.

Waxy

P.S.  There's no question that minnows are the hot ticket for Alberta walleye, they outfish leeches by a big margin most of the time, but they can be nearly useless on the big southern Sask lakes.  A leech, or even a worm, will outperform minnows there I'd say 90+% of the time.  I've always wondered why that is...
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Chris K

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 01:43:25 PM »
I use Glup 5 inch Jerkshads in Arkansas Shiner, Pearl White, and Anchovy all the time when pitching jigs, or snap jigging.  I also use Northland Slurpies Jerkshads in Pearl White too, and these baits are for fishing agressively.  In situations where due to being barbless, I can't keep a bait on my hook, they shine.  If I get bit and miss a fish, I know there is still the artificial on there, and fish hill hit it again.  They don't seem to hold it as long, so when they hit, you have to set the hook fast.  I also use them for more bulk of a presentation, and their profile matches bigger sized minnows.  I use the 3 inch Jerkshads and have been using the 3 inch Powerbait minnows for years.  These baits pick off the more agressive fish and I fish way faster and heavier while searching with them.  I use the Northland Surpies Mimic Minnow 3 inch shads too, and like their forage matching colors, especially the perch, emerald, and silver shiner.       

I use 3 inch Gulp Fry in Natural and Pumpkin color as a crawler trailer.  They work great onb 1/8 and 1/4 oz jigs, and have an awesome action.  I pitch and hop jigs back a lot, and these are my go to to downsize from the jerkshads.  They are not stocked in many places out here in Alberta.  These work very well on a slow death style rig behind a bouncer too.   

I rarely use live crawlers on spinner rigs anymore.  The Gulp ones just work as good, or better in many situations as they can't be pulled off or torn up by short biters, and I can fish more effectively and longer by not having to rebait frequently.  I know the difference in feel if I have my bait on after a bite or not, and if I have a small fish on being barbless, I will shake them off, or give the line slack so they get off and keep trolling hoping for a bigger bite, and a larger fish next.  I can stay down in the strikezone longer and fish it more effectively.  I also use the 5, 6 and 7 inch jerk shads on spinner rigs.  You need to upsize your hooks as well to get a bit through the plastic.  Don't be scared of 2/0 and 3/0 hooks, as the fish you will catch on these combo's are not!  Big fish eat big baits, and a 7 to 10 inch spinner profile is a nice meal for a 6+ pound fish.   

Rigging with real bait vs artificals is a no brainer, I ALWAYS use real baits if I can in those situations.  If I can't, I use a different presentation that is reaction instead of natural.  Sometimes you need finesse, and livebaits just can't be replaced. 

Water clarity, time of year, structure, and time of day are the biggest factors as well in selecting what baits I use.  If a lake is green like pea soup, and it's evening during the summer peak and I am fishing a shallow weed edge, I will go with plastics and pitch up shallow and hammer fish like crazy.  If it's the same lake in early spring, just after opener, I am going to drag a 1/8 oz jig with a leech very slowly.

In tournaments I use a lot of artificals, and during prefish spend time figuring out a program.  I might not fish a whole event with artificals, but I always have them ready to go, and sometimes for fish that have seen nothing but livebait, fishing artificals really agressively can get me a few extra fish when things get slow. 


Chris K   
         

npauls

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2011, 03:05:20 PM »
I was out this past weekend in my little tinner at grassy and couldn't buy a bite on a jig tipped with a minnow or worm. I then decided to chuck a worm on a spinner and drag the bottom for a bit. Before I could even start trolling I had an eye on. After that it was game on and it didn't stop until I tried some gulp products out. I didn't get a single bite again until I switched back to real crawlers. I rarely have any success with gulp plastics and I give them a good effort if I notice the bite is fast and furious. I have found that real bait will pretty much always out fish plastics for me.
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Paul

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2011, 05:03:41 PM »
Many years ago I tried the Berkely scented rubber worms where the Redwater runs into the NSR. I put them on a mepps spinner and I slaughtered some massive walleye in the 7-9lb range, they were hammering it. That being said I didn't use a real leech or worm there to test it against, but they seemed to work very well.

AxeMan

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2011, 05:22:42 PM »
Moved my previous comment about Gulp baits here.  Excellent thread btw.

Walleyes, I had the same question about Gulp Alive baits until lately when I had a chance to do some side by side comparisons with real bait.
My latest test was real jumbo leeches versus Berkley Gulp Alive 3" leeches.  I used the Berkley Alive leeches in the liquid recharge container and the ones in the zip lock bag.
I would say the real jumbo leeches outfished the Berkley Alive ones about 3 fish to one.  We were on top of the walleyes jigging and they were biting pretty good (Moose Lake).  Morel of the story is you cant beat the real thing but the Berkley Alive leeches stay on the hook well since they are rubber and they do work well.  I prefer the zip lock package better than the liquid recharge container and I would say they are identical in performance.  My strategy is to buy real bait when I can but have some of the Berkley Alive stuff as backup if I can't get the real bait or I run out.  The Berkley Alive baits have worked for me in other situations too recently.

Berkley Alive Leeches

Pros:
-work quite well.  Fish are attracted to them.
-stay on the hook well.
-you can recharge their scent in the bag or container.
-store well between fishing trips.

Cons:
-not as good as the real thing.
-expensive (but so are real leeches)

Real Jumbo Leeches

Pros:
-best bait bar none imho.

Cons:
-expensive
-sometimes hard to find good ones.
-don't keep well.
-don't stay on the hook as well. (not a big problem though)
-seems like you can never have enough of them.
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weeman

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2011, 08:41:59 PM »
X2 Axeman...You cannot fool fish. Real Leeches have been around for thousands of years.
I have a hard time believing that the artificial bates work better.
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Chris K

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 03:48:38 PM »
Well I am not going to tell you that artificials work better all the time, but if you know how to use them properly and in the right situations, you can clean up next to someone with livebait.  I have tournament wins, tons of top 10's and very respectable finishes against the best walleye pro's in the business.  Tips and tricks I have gleaned from these guys have helped me to fish artificals better, and have confidence in them under a variety of situations.

Chris K 

AxeMan

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 04:45:03 PM »
X2 Axeman...You cannot fool fish. Real Leeches have been around for thousands of years.
I have a hard time believing that the artificial bates work better.

I think you may have read my comments wrong.  Fooling the fish is what it is all about and like I said the artificial scented baits do work quite well, just not quite as well as the real baits with my style of fishing.
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walleyes

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 05:48:33 PM »
Good info boys.

Chris I am going to try out some of your tips if you don't mind..

Tuc

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 01:00:40 AM »
Good thread walleyes, lots of info here.
Wish I could contribute but after years of being out of it I finally decided to get back in and am now learning about all the new baits and technics.
Keep er comin boys!

Chris K

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 06:13:18 PM »
Good info boys.

Chris I am going to try out some of your tips if you don't mind..

One of these days we will have to get together and I can show you first hand.  I got a few spots I want to fish really badly to the north east of the city.   ;)


Chris K

walleyes

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 07:01:59 PM »
Good info boys.

Chris I am going to try out some of your tips if you don't mind..

One of these days we will have to get together and I can show you first hand.  I got a few spots I want to fish really badly to the north east of the city.   ;)


Chris K

Yup your darn rights we will have to do it.. Have quite a few little gems of walleye holes we could venture to.


Chris K

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 08:27:01 AM »
There are a few places left in the Province that I don't speak of unless in very select company where the walleyes are still fat and very healthy looking, and you have a shot at true 10 pound + fish.  Hopefully they don't get wrecked like all our other lakes! 


Chris K     

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Re: Real Bait VS Any Of The Manufactured Baits.
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 01:49:41 AM »
i dont know its a tough question but a good one. all my life i basically fished pike until recent years so for pike ya of coarse artificial over real just saying a len thompson red devil costs alot less than the amount ill spend on minnow tubes but now that im fishing a way more variety im honestly thinking pike might just be the only fish i can think of where artificial is better :s