Author Topic: Supplemental Whitetail Tags  (Read 5929 times)

AxeMan

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Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« on: November 15, 2013, 08:30:42 AM »
Is it time for them to be eliminated or cut back from 2 to 1?

I think so.  With a couple of tough years on the whitetail population and the wolves at a high, the deer population has been reduced significantly.  I don't think the 2 supplemental tags in a lot of zones has helped either.  Maybe SRD wants the deer population lower with the whole CWD thing, I don't know.

In the bush zone where I hunt north-west of Edmonton, CWD has never been an issue and the deer population is really hurting.  Another bad winter and things will be pretty grim especially with the big packs of wolves around.  I believe that this year was the time for SRD to be reactionary and reduce or eliminate those supplemental tags.

I know many hunters feel this way and have not bought supplemental tags.  I know our group hasn't.  I can't help that feeling that many hunters are better conservationists than SRD themselves.  There are always the ones that will buy every tag they can and get every draw possible and try to fill them all, and that may too much for some of these zones.

What do you guys think?
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deerman

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 01:50:20 PM »

I believe there are areas "in the bush" where white-til deer numbers are still unusually high.

They are what keeps wolf numbers high, as a pack of wolves that does not find an elk or moose does not lose members to starvation.  There is a good chance they will just kill a deer and the pack lives another day to hunt elk and moose.

If wht.tail deer numbers were much lower the wolves would not have so much "fast food" and pack sizes would be reduced.

I would like to see more supplemental deer tags (does and bucks) in areas that have moose and wolves.

Big bucks are always going to hard to come by.  But a hunter with a little experience and some time should be able to kill some does and fawns.

AxeMan

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 05:23:59 PM »
Deerman,

I suppose that fits right in with SRD's theory if you kill all the moose then the wolves will all starve and the caribou will survive. eg WMU353

I do remember a time in my zone where whitetails were very rare.  There were tons of bush mule deer then though. There were always wolves but lots of moose too.

I think I see a rip in the social fabric, Brother can you spare some ammo?
Gettin' down on the mountain, gettin' down on the mountain

Paul

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 06:48:21 PM »
I agree Dave, in fact I wrote the SRD 2 years ago asking them to not manage whitetail so generically and to eliminate the supplemental tags in the fringe and forest WMU's. They never bothered to reply. It's quite clear they know exactly what they are doing and are the "experts".

Dark Wing

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »
Deerman,

I suppose that fits right in with SRD's theory if you kill all the moose then the wolves will all starve and the caribou will survive. eg WMU353

I do remember a time in my zone where whitetails were very rare.  There were tons of bush mule deer then though. There were always wolves but lots of moose too.

The biologists reason for the supplemental tags was to hold back wt numbers because they were pushing the mulies out. Well now the mulie doe numbers are getting less and less. The heards are reduced to a couple from 6-12. Funny when they see a vehicle now the run. If srd was so concerned about mulies why have general season. Supplemental tags in the mountain zones have run it's course, it's making for shitty hunting.

walleyes

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 07:11:00 PM »
I think it should be done on a zone by zone basis. Deer numbers around here and up around La Biche seem to be doing quite fine.. It's good to keep doe numbers in line with buck numbers, it's not like eliminating a few more does decreases the trophy buck numbers quite the opposite. Remove the option of some people taking a meat doe and they will be hammering every buck they get a chance to never giving the bucks a chance to mature. Deer are a fast reproducing species, a couple good years and things will be back in check,, hopefully.

SouthernGuy

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 07:13:06 PM »
I would like to see it reduced to one tag at a minimum, better yet put them on draw like the rest of the province so each hunter can take 1 additional doe. Where we hunt in north central Alberta the supplemental tags have really lowered deer numbers especially since they were discontinued in a popular adjacent zone. Same thing happened down south when they gave out double mulie and whitetail tags for a few years in a row, the mulies never did recover from that. I love venison as much as anybody but I think everyone can survive by being limited to a buck and a doe (or even two does if they choose to use a general tag that way). I still hunt does but did not harvest any up north this year, where im hunting right now we're seeing hundreds every night, 4 fresh roadkills last night along a 5 km stretch. Lots of no hunting land leads to the opposite issues we have on public lands, and in this case we have to draw tags to hunt them.

Paul

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 08:31:30 PM »
I remember when we had no supplemental tags, there were less hunters then too, and things seemed to balance out pretty good. Now, I am not against giving an extra doe tag in areas that can support it, but it needs to be done on a zone by zone basis.

Keep in mind as well, in the forest areas, where there are higher predator numbers, every fawn that is orphaned has a slim chance of making the winter. I saw a lot of orphaned fawns last year.

Lots of no hunting land leads to the opposite issues we have on public lands, and in this case we have to draw tags to hunt them.

An excellent point Southernguy.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 08:35:07 PM by Paul »

deerman

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 09:12:47 PM »

It would be ideal if they could manage game by WMU and fish lake by lake.  And if they had the money and staff they could do that.  But they don't.

In the states I often read where a fellow hunts in his home state and then drives a reasonably short distance north to hunt another buck in another state and then drives west to hunt in another state etc. 

We live in a huge province and get one general white-tail licence and maybe a couple doe tags.

I was home for lunch today and read this thread and so I went online and got two supplemental tags.  Before the ink was dry I was putting one on a dry yearling doe that was fat as a hog. 

I had been tempted to shoot a couple of the smaller bucks I have seen in the past week or so but now I have some venison and will propably not shoot a smaller "up and coming buck" .

Like wallete said, without the doe tags guys who want venison will shoot the first buck they see.

Tuc

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2013, 05:38:17 AM »
I think one supp tag is plenty, what happens if we have a couple of hard winters in a row, deer pops will take a big hit. It's my opinion it's better to have too many deer than not enough.

In Sask before those couple of hard winters they issued supp tags for WT. Now they have cut them out except for a few zones. Noone can predict the weather but I often wonder if the supp tag system wasn't in place , would the deer herds now be a little healthier. The predators weed out the weak and sick but even healthy deer have a hard time surviving deep snow and extreme cold. So maybe the more deer you have around increases the chances of survival.

It's hard to see the animals suffer and succum to harsh winters. I remember watching a WT doe in the -30 cold and deep snow taking shelter up against to round hay bails near a grain bin behind my place. Apparently she was looking for any droppings of grain that might be buried under the deep snow, if she could even get at them. I sledded by here on several occassions keeping my distance as not to stress her out, I knew she was too weak to run. Two days later when I was going by, I seen the crows and magpies near the grain bin. A closer investigation showed very little left of her as the coyotes pretty well picked her clean the night before. Though I'm a hunter (must be getting soft in my later years) I hate seeing an animal suffer like this. Starvation is a slow agonizing death and I'm glad the predators are around to do their job. I keep a few alfafa bails around now and feed the deer in hard winters as many of the farmers do in my area.

Too sum it up, I would rather see no supp tags at all. Mother nature usually has a way of looking after this stuff...

AxeMan

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 09:59:07 AM »
It would be ideal if they could manage game by WMU and fish lake by lake.  And if they had the money and staff they could do that.  But they don't.

In the states I often read where a fellow hunts in his home state and then drives a reasonably short distance north to hunt another buck in another state and then drives west to hunt in another state etc. 

We live in a huge province and get one general white-tail licence and maybe a couple doe tags.

I was home for lunch today and read this thread and so I went online and got two supplemental tags.  Before the ink was dry I was putting one on a dry yearling doe that was fat as a hog. 

I had been tempted to shoot a couple of the smaller bucks I have seen in the past week or so but now I have some venison and will propably not shoot a smaller "up and coming buck" .

Like wallete said, without the doe tags guys who want venison will shoot the first buck they see.

I do respect the supplemental tag for the reason you just stated.  If a hunter wants some venison for the table then he can use a supplemental tag for a dry doe.  He can then retain his general tag for hunting a bigger buck which may or may not be in the cards for him but he then can enjoy the hunt for that special buck till the end of the season.  That also helps create a balance as others have stated.  Perhaps 1 supplemental tag is the way to go.

Deerhunter, good on you for choosing a dry doe.

The guys that just want to fill 3 wt tags as fast as they can to bolster their freezer load should consider the sustainability of that in their area or zone.  I suspect if the deer crash in their area though they just move on.  I just want to explain, we hunt an area that is fairly low pressure, but the more main roads into this area are patrolled by the "shoot every deer you see crowd".  There is a huge disparity in the deer population from the road corridors to the back country.  If our group of 3-4 guys were to fill all of our possible wt tags every year that would change no doubt.  That would be 12 deer we could kill and very easily could have. 10 additional deer for us would be just stupid imho.  We killed 2 deer last year and 2 again this year as well as 2 moose.  That is enough for our freezers.  I feel pretty good about limiting our take, not taking our limit just because we can.  I have no plans of leaving our area anytime soon and hope game populations stay sustainable.

All I hope is that hunters consider their needs and conservation too with the very generous wt deer limit in much of this province.  So far the deer population is okay for the most part but the numbers are falling in some areas.  Time to become proactive and react before it is too late is all I am saying.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 10:16:57 AM by AxeMan »
I think I see a rip in the social fabric, Brother can you spare some ammo?
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Dark Wing

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2013, 11:14:26 AM »
I think it should be done on a zone by zone basis. Deer numbers around here and up around La Biche seem to be doing quite fine.. It's good to keep doe numbers in line with buck numbers, it's not like eliminating a few more does decreases the trophy buck numbers quite the opposite. Remove the option of some people taking a meat doe and they will be hammering every buck they get a chance to never giving the bucks a chance to mature. Deer are a fast reproducing species, a couple good years and things will be back in check,, hopefully.

We have this problem up near GC, does are getting hammered as well as the little bucks. Deer season opens Sept. 17th till the end of November. The only decent hunting left here is for moose but at the rate the draws are going it'll be 10 year wait between tags with exception of WMU 353, throw in a general Mule deer tags and they become mythical creatures. It gets pretty frustrating watching once prime deer hunting areas get pummeled. So far the buck to doe ratios are 14:1 judging by my sightings in November.

deerman

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Re: Supplemental Whitetail Tags
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2013, 04:56:21 PM »

This is how they look at it in Ont.



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