Author Topic: Too many elk, too many moose.  (Read 5571 times)

deerman

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Too many elk, too many moose.
« on: March 07, 2013, 08:58:58 AM »

Well in Elk Island Nat. Park anyway.

Every couple years they round up a bunch of elk and inspect and inject and feed them up for awhile then truck them out to release them somewhere.

Many have gone to eastern Canada and the US to establish herds there that now have limited entry hunting seasons.

Lots go out west in Alberta to supplement our wild herds (and maybe feed some wolves).

But elk are relatively easy to herd up and deal with and don't mind being together in a trailer so much.

Moose are another story.  It would probably be very difficult to round them up and move them in trailers.  But the moose numbers are too high in the park and need to be reduced.

There are "CONTROLLED HUNTS" in Wainwright, Suffield, Cypress hills Prov. park.  Do you think it would be possible to have a controlled moose hunt in Elk Island National park?

Weste

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 02:39:56 PM »
Would be interesting to see but I dont see the National government introducing a hunting season in a National Park.  Definitely would want to be in the first year if I could though!

walleyes

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 04:57:45 PM »
That would be a pretty sweet draw to get at..

AxeMan

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 06:14:13 PM »
What is the moose density in the park now?  A few years back maximum target density was 2 per square km.  About 400 animals.
Do you have any literature to share with us, deerman?

I highly doubt that a national park would ever allow a controlled hunt by the public.  Park wardens have shot them in there in the past though.
I was raised 5 miles from the park fences and have spent a fair amount of time in there.  Interesting how the moose population has dramatically risen in the areas around the park over the last couple of decades. 
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JIMMY 808

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 06:35:35 PM »
Helicopter 340 \hr
Wild life bio salary who cares
Profession gunner from USA not sure but I know a guy  :P
Labour crew from remand center 50 \hr
Mobile butcher cut and rap for x number a pound.


Looks like I solved the problem for less than 30k...  Ah to be in charge.

deerman

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 09:22:05 AM »
Helicopter 340 \hr
Wild life bio salary who cares
Profession gunner from USA not sure but I know a guy  :P
Labour crew from remand center 50 \hr
Mobile butcher cut and rap for x number a pound.


Looks like I solved the problem for less than 30k...  Ah to be in charge.



OR:
No helicopter
No biologist
No profesional gunner
No labour crew
Wow that is quite a savings right there.

One parks warden to accompany each paying hunter (they would get their daily wage doing something else in the park and today they are working on "moose population reduction project"
A number of tags (10 or so)for the first hunt are prizes in a lottery(you could buy as many "chances" as you wanted), the funds going directly to Parks Canada Elk Island , so this actually generates some income.
Subsequent licences go to a special draw with a higher than normal application fee which goes toward administration of the draw and to Parks Canada Elk Island.   Which generates more income.  A priority system would be in place with a unique draw code.

Instead of costing 30k with the approach of a Redford government project, this method would generate income and make a bunch of Alberta hunters happy and another bunch even happier.

JIMMY 808

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 07:46:31 PM »


OR:
No helicopter
No biologist
No profesional gunner
No labour crew
Wow that is quite a savings right there.

One parks warden to accompany each paying hunter (they would get their daily wage doing something else in the park and today they are working on "moose population reduction project"
A number of tags (10 or so)for the first hunt are prizes in a lottery(you could buy as many "chances" as you wanted), the funds going directly to Parks Canada Elk Island , so this actually generates some income.
Subsequent licences go to a special draw with a higher than normal application fee which goes toward administration of the draw and to Parks Canada Elk Island.   Which generates more income.  A priority system would be in place with a unique draw code.

Instead of costing 30k with the approach of a Redford government project, this method would generate income and make a bunch of Alberta hunters happy and another bunch even happier.

OkÖ
  Do we have a Draw for everyone in Canada?  Itís my understanding itís a national park just asking.  Or is the park funded only buy people from Alberta?

deerman

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2013, 01:26:24 PM »
OkÖ
  Do we have a Draw for everyone in Canada?  Itís my understanding itís a national park just asking.  Or is the park funded only buy people from Alberta?

The law says the elk belong to Alberta and the Park belongs to Canada.  I would suggest that a moose hunt in Elk Island Park should not be open to "Non-re. non-canadians" but perhaps it should be open to canadians.  They would not need a guide or hunter host as they would be accompanied by a park "warden".


sheepguide

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2013, 02:05:15 PM »
Keep hunting out of our parks and sanctuaries. No reason moose can't be transplanted. Once the hunting starts in these areas you never know where it could end. 
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walleyes

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2013, 03:51:20 PM »
Keep hunting out of our parks and sanctuaries. No reason moose can't be transplanted. Once the hunting starts in these areas you never know where it could end.

Well it could end in some pretty awesome hunting opurtunities,, one can dream. Could you emagine getting in to some of those park Rams,, or park 7 point bulls.. Whats the big deal where it is, if the area needs population control lets do it.

sheepguide

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2013, 04:14:29 PM »
I honestly have no intrest in hunting in the park, or the mine or any sanctuaries!! What's the sport in it?? Bragging rights for killing a big animal that has absolutly no fear of humans?

Yep we bash game farming but will hunt a fenced sanctuary ?? How does that work?
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walleyes

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 04:18:55 PM »
I honestly have no intrest in hunting in the park, or the mine or any sanctuaries!! What's the sport in it?? Bragging rights for killing a big animal that has absolutly no fear of humans?

Yep we bash game farming but will hunt a fenced sanctuary ?? How does that work?

Well you have a point there Darcy.. Although I am not sure how tame a bull moose in Elk Island would be but I never thought about the high fence.. Mind you I don't know of any fences around Jasper or Banff that would hold those big rams in..

sheepguide

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 04:28:24 PM »
Nope no fences to hold them rams but 95%will let you walk right up to them and that is of no desire to me for harvesting a ram. And don't fool yourself that imaginary park boundary is most times as good as a high fence!!

Parks and Aancturies are designed to protect no grow larger populations do we have more hunting. Transplant them out to the wilds and then hunt them.
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deerman

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 05:04:38 PM »

Camp Wainwright, Cyprus Hills, Suffield base are all wildlife sanctuaries with animal population limitations.  Allowing hunters in on a controlled hunt is an option that is being used.  I don't see Elk Island being much different.

The fact that the animals may be a little "tamer"is valid.  So some people may not want to hunt there.  But I don't think that is a reason not to have a hunt.

They have been relocating elk because they are not so hard to catch and handle.  I believe that moose are a different story and would not be so easily relocated.

Elk Island is a park with a large ungulate population and a lack of large predators.  Quite different than our big mountain parks and just the situation where a controlled hunt would be beneficial.

sheepguide

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AxeMan

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2013, 06:25:36 PM »
I would be completely shocked if the Feds ever allowed a public hunt in a national park.  Way too much tree hugger backlash.  The argument about a moose hunt being too unsporting, a high fence hunt, tame moose, and no bragging rights is missing the point on a few different levels though.  First off, the idea here is game management and contrary to some people's ideolgy, hunting can be more than a brag fest and horn comparing contest.  As far as Elk Island moose being tame, nope, they act no different than any other moose in WMU248.  If you are looking for a wiley animal to hunt you better stick to big WT's, moose aren't known for being too sneaky.  Once you find them, 80% of the time you get them.

Transplanting definitely could work, but within Alberta, there is no real need for it and the costs would be prohibitive, especially with the federal government involved.
I think I see a rip in the social fabric, Brother can you spare some ammo?
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deerman

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 08:46:39 AM »

In the article provided by Sheepguide there is a bunch of money spent to establish and supplement a moose population.

I don't know who would come up with the money for such an undertaking in Elk Island.

Lets look at possible options.

1. relocate a bunch of moose at a large cost.

2. conduct a controlled hunt where supervised hunters harvest and remove moose.

3. park wardens shoot moose and give the meat to "first nations" (is that still the politically correct name???) processed or un-processed.


I know which option I would like to see.

sheepguide

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 09:00:38 AM »
In the article provided by Sheepguide there is a bunch of money spent to establish and supplement a moose population.

I don't know who would come up with the money for such an undertaking in Elk Island.

Lets look at possible options.

1. relocate a bunch of moose at a large cost.

2. conduct a controlled hunt where supervised hunters harvest and remove moose.

3. park wardens shoot moose and give the meat to "first nations" (is that still the politically correct name???) processed or un-processed.


I know which option I would like to see.

How many cow moose are you going to remove Duffy? How many hunters is this going to include. Shoot 10 cows in the fall and you have removed 20 moose that would have replenished any of our forestry zones that spring. Many of Our mountain zones are currently 10+yr waits with tag numbers as low as 5per zone per season? Wouldnt these reproducing cows be better served out in these areas? Or are you guys just wanting to harvest bulls? Doesnt help population numbers down the road? Maybe we should quit transplanting elk and just put tags out to hunt them?
Cost doesnt need to be huge. Dart the moose and sleigh them out to waiting pens and trailers. No need for helicopters? Wouldnt cost any more than hauling a herd of elk out of there and they do that a few times every spring. Just coincide the moose with an elk capture. Where would many of our zones be with out Sanctuary herds? Start hunting a few moose, then it will be the elk and soon we have no back up for our provincial lands. Guys are just to eager to go shoot things!!! Get these female moose out producing calves in our forestry and it could bring the number of years to be draw down.

Just like the Cadomin mine site. Thousands of guys talk about them needing to open it to limited hunting but a very very small majority want to hunt ewes in there but in reality that is the only way to control the actual population numbers. Guys just want easy hunts for big animals.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 09:28:56 AM by sheepguide »
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albertadave

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 10:55:44 AM »
Transplanting would equate to nothing more than high priced wolf food in some other location.

walleyes

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Re: Too many elk, too many moose.
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
Well I guess no more than any other moose in the wild is wolf bait Dave..

I really don't see the need to transplant moose in this province, they seem to be doing fine in the places that moose do fine in.. If some of the mountain zones are not doing well with moose there are other issues at play here and just adding more moose will not solve the problem. I don't hunt those areas so I can't make a call on what those issues may be. But I do know the species well, and have experienced more than one die off in good moose habitat and moose have the ability to recover fast if the habitat can support them. And as was mentioned before,, moose are not like other animals in way that they do not like to be handled, they do not do well transplanting and in the past have proven quite diffecult as in a lot of cases they will just walk back home,, regardess of how far it is.

In this case and do to the small size of Elk Island if the population gets to a point that they become a threat to themselves or other animals in the park I would not have a problem with a controled harvest. As far as the high fence issue,, personely that wouldn't be an issue with me as I bring the animal to me,, I don't chase it.

Hunting moose in EIP ceratinly would not be a dream hunt of mine but given the opurtunity I certainly think I would put in for a draw,, why not.. For me it would be a meat hunt with the possibility of a nice set of antlers,, probably wouldn't be my proudest set but what the heck,, it would fill the freezer.